193 Can Color Heal You? Dr. Deanna Minich Thinks So 🎨🧠🌿

Forget everything you thought you knew about nutrition. This episode gets wildly colorful—literally.

Dr. Deanna Minich joins Sally to decode how COLOR—yes, actual colors—can shift your health, your hormones, and even your mood. From purple carrots to chlorophyll, this convo goes deep on how to nourish your body and your energy.

We’re talking:
✨ Yellow for joy + gut vibes
💚 Green for heart + healing
💙 Blue for truth + throat chakra realness
🟣 Purple for brain power & nutrient density

Oh—and did you know chlorophyll is basically plant blood? Yeah, it gets that real.

But it’s not just about rainbows on your plate. Dr. Minich breaks down:
🔁 Why fasting helps your body reboot
🌑 How your hormones sync with lunar rhythms
🔥 Why menopause needs a whole-body approach
🧘‍♀️ And how self-care isn’t just nice—it’s non-negotiable

Expect:
💡 Functional medicine gems
💡 Brain + endocrine connections
💡 Holistic insights that make you rethink your plate and your patterns

🎧 Hit play if you're ready to add color therapy to your wellness toolkit—and rethink everything from your cravings to your cycles.

📲 Connect with Deanna:

Deanna Minich Events, Blog & Info: www.deannaminich.com

Certification Program: www.foodandspirit.com

Whole Detox: www.whole-detox.com

Social Media:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/deanna.minich/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/deannaminich/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/foodandspirit/

Sally's Links:

[Free Guide] Healing The Trauma Underlying Your Menopause Symptom Severity:  https://www.sallygarozzo.com/healingtraumatheguide

[On Demand Masterclass 2 hours] How To Heal The Trauma Underlying Your Menopause Symptom Severity [£17]: https://www.sallygarozzo.com/healingtrauma

[On Demand Workshop] Redefine Your Values at Menopause and Live Life in Alignment With Them [£27]: https://www.sallygarozzo.com/redefine 

[Online Practitioners Diploma - Self Paced] Menopause Wellbeing Practitioner [£127]: https://www.sallygarozzo.com/meno

[One to One] Transformational 30 Day Rewire (Includes RTT) [£447]: https://www.sallygarozzo.com/rapid-transformational-therapist

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sallygarozzomindmentor

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sallygarozzo/

Send me a voice clip via WhatsApp: https://wa.me/message/FTARBMO7CRLEL1

Transcript

Sally (00:00.811)
So my guest today is Dr. Deanna Minick. Deanna is a nutrition scientist, an international lecturer, educator, and author with over 20 years of experience in academia and the food and dietary supplement industries. She's been active as a functional medicine clinician in clinical trials and in her own practice.

food and spirit. She's the author of seven books on wellness topics. She's authored four book chapters and over 50 scientific publications. Through her talks, workshops, groups and in-person retreats, she helps people to transform their lives practically and artfully through nutrition, lifestyle and colour. So Deanna, welcome to the podcast today. How are you?

Deanna Minich (00:56.586)
lovely to be here with you, Sally. Thank you for the invitation and I'm excited for what we're going to be discussing. It sounds like we're going to talk about a lot of different things, which is my preference to kind of see the crosstalk and where everything is where it leads us.

Sally (01:08.479)
Yeah, I love that.

Sally (01:14.273)
That's right, that sort of cross-pollination of women's health that we have here. So I've spoken to quite a few functional medicine practitioners on the podcast and integrative health practitioners, but you're a little bit different. You use color in a way that I've never seen before. And that is really what drew me to you because I'm a huge fan of color. So color to me is almost like a value. Like if an environment is not

Deanna Minich (01:19.117)
Yes.

Sally (01:40.809)
colorful or the colors don't please me in a way, I want to get out of there if there's no coherence with the color scheme. So it really is something that's very, very important to me. And then when I came across your Instagram, I was like, my God, I love this woman. You're using color. You're using categories. You're using cataloging and you're sort of creating these models where you're combining color, food, body systems.

and emotional states and I just think it's absolutely genius. So I am so curious, before we dive into menopause, or it might actually cross link, can you explain how you came up with the idea of using colour as a framework to hang all the other facets of health on?

Deanna Minich (02:28.398)
Here's where the pattern recognition begins. It was kind of like an amalgam of many different things, quite honestly, Sally. If I think back, I saw a picture of myself when I was celebrating my 12th birthday and I had a rainbow shirt on. That was part of the thing in the 80s. I grew up in the 70s and the 80s and it was all about fluorescent color, neon tights, rainbow shirts.

You know, I'm a product of the 80s. So maybe it started there. I'm not sure. But then I would say that things went deeper, like scientifically, like as I went through graduate school, I started studying plant compounds. So I studied nutrition and as part of my master's thesis, it was on carotenoids and carotenoids are plant pigments. So from a science perspective, I got turned on to it from that perspective.

But then I also had kind of a parallel track to my life, which was more, I would call it more spiritual or psychological or philosophical. So I took my first yoga class when I was 19. And then when I was going through my PhD, I got really stressed out. So that was like 27, 28, 29, like that timeframe of my life. And during that time I had health conditions.

you know, just kind of gut issues, reproductive issues. And I started to really tune into color and I started painting just out of nowhere. I just got stressed one weekend. I went to the art shop and I bought this big roll of paper and I don't know what it was, but I just started connecting with color. It was almost like color was very healing for me. And I remember the first thing that I made, it was a huge piece of paper and it had

It was kind of like an amoeba. wasn't like a certain, like I wasn't painting a boat or a mountain or something tangible. It was like a shape with a lot of color. It was red, yellow and black. And I just put it up on my wall and I felt like it was like something that needed to come out of me and something that needed to be expressed. And then I would say after that point,

Deanna Minich (04:44.566)
I even started, this is going to sound perhaps kind of strange, but I started to see people as colors. Like I would tune into people and I would be feeling like, wow, this person is so red. This person is like even for certain people for their birthdays, I would paint them. So color became one of the ways that I was communicating, I would say less from the head and more from the heart.

It was a way that even though I studied science and medical science and got all kind of technical, this was like a part of myself that was coming up and it was needing to be expressed in some way. So when you ask like, how did you get to color? I think it was part of my own personal journey. was part of my scientific journey. you know, color is a very potent vehicle of healing.

Just like you said, like if the surroundings aren't pleasing, if they're not artful, if they're not beautiful, it's kind of like we shut down. And the more that our environment, whether it's our clothing, our earrings, our jewelry, our walls, our, even the car that we might drive, right? All of it counts. Like all of it is subconsciously being directed and we key into color. So today it was kind of interesting because I was

Sally (06:04.981)
Yeah.

Deanna Minich (06:07.01)
kind of feel like I feel out each day. And I was like, you know, I haven't worn the color that I'm wearing right here, which is kind of like when we logged on, I was thinking, wow, this blue greeny kind of color. And then your walls are, mean, just there's like a blue, light blue vibe on your side for me. So it's like, how interesting, you know, because I haven't worn that yesterday I was wearing bright red. So I kind of try to like match the energy of the day or what I feel might emerge.

with even like the colors that I'm wearing or that I embody in some way.

Sally (06:40.477)
Hmm yeah it's so lovely to play with colour. So in your journey with colour have you noticed that there are certain colours that represent certain energies? Yeah.

Deanna Minich (06:53.494)
Yeah, yes, and we can take that from. So again, I think for me it was an amalgam of like yoga, looking at philosophy, world religions, color therapy. But I would say I kind of took everything and put it in a blender, if you will. And this is what I feel, right? And everybody has their own associations with color. So I honor that too, because not everybody's take on purple will be like what I feel that purple is.

Sally (07:21.921)
show.

Deanna Minich (07:22.146)
So I kind of bring the food in and I bring in like the symbolism psychologically. So red psychologically is all about action, very simply. Think of like an ambulance, a stop sign, or at least in the US, our stop signs are red and know, red is like alert, you know, a red stoplight, stop, you know, the adrenals, stop, inflammation in the body, you need to do something.

Sally (07:40.693)
Yeah, they are here, yeah.

Deanna Minich (07:51.822)
Red foods, really potent and help with things like the immune inflammatory system. Orange is more of a playful, warm, sensual color. It evokes a lot of emotion. So if we think of like a sunset, a sunrise, orange is just kind of playful, but sometimes it can be a little bit cautious too. Like construction sites use a lot of orange as a way to prompt people and alert them.

But in nature, this is kind of interesting, Sally, because if you look at like guppies or flamingos, when the different birds or fish are selecting a mate, typically they will select for a more vibrant orange, whether it's a fish or a bird. So it's like a lure. It's like, oh, you you.

look very vital and I would like to mate with you. So I kind of see. Yeah.

Sally (08:52.171)
So it's like life force, it's a strong life force that is exuding from the animal when they have a strong color. And I guess it's the same with humans as well. Like when we're wearing bold colors or we make our homes bright, for me, it feels like a strong life force energy. And I've been told that as well actually by people that there's a strong life force about me. And I think it might be.

It might be because of the colour, but it also might be because I have this strong life force. That's why I want big colours. You know, it never used to occur to me to choose muted colours at all. I find choosing muted colours really, really difficult. Like I'm designing my new kitchen at the moment. And for me, it was just, where are the actual colours in the showroom? It was all these pale greys and browns. And I'm like, I can't work with these. I don't know what they mean to me. Like I can't...

Deanna Minich (09:47.914)
Right.

Sally (09:48.645)
I can't put these together so it's so bizarre anyway

Deanna Minich (09:53.9)
Yeah, and you know, everybody, exactly. Like if I think of New York City, like if you've ever been to a large city, many times there's just a lot of like wearing black. You know, for some people, it's just kind of like what they're doing with their energy, conserving their energy, kind of withdrawing, especially when there's so much energy on the outside. It's kind of like the color you wear can be like a shield or it can be like a flash card. It's kind of like, notice me, I'm wearing this bright color.

You know, I'm exuding, I'm like putting my energy out there to connect with more. Whereas for some people, like it was very interesting that you even mentioned what you just did because it makes me think of my husband who's pretty introverted and he doesn't like to wear a lot of bright colors. He's like, I don't want to have this attention. So I kind of feel like it's too, yeah, like it reflects our personality. It reflects who we are. Like I love green. I'm obsessed with green. Like since I was seven years old,

Sally (10:27.777)
Yeah.

Deanna Minich (10:52.224)
You asked me like what my favorite color is. It's emerald green, green, green, green. So and you know, I just started wearing green dresses, green clothing. I live in a forest. I love green. So sometimes color is a nutrient for us. I do think that here's my theory. I think we have constitutional colors.

where it's kind of like our soul, our energy, our vibration is probably like a certain resonance or wavelength or frequency. And that's kind of like our constitution. But then we flux in and out of colors. Like for a long time, I had a challenge with orange, actually. Pink? Forget about it. Like I never liked to wear pink. And even now, sometimes I look at like hyper...

pigmented pink and it's just like, it just, don't know why, but it's like, there's something in that that just makes me like pull away. But green and purple and magenta, you know, I just love those colors. So anyway, it's like, what is it about the color and how does it have medicine and healing for you? Because I think that the colors that we are, that we gravitate to,

can be one thing and then the colors that we shy away from can actually be telling us other things. So I think it's all really relevant. So again, constitutional colors. Some people might say, well, is that like the color, if you're a winter or a summer, not necessarily. I don't know how to describe it. It's just kind of like the energy that you were born as, right? And like, that's the energy that I tap into when I'm sensing somebody's color and I paint their color. It's like,

Sally (12:12.065)
Mmm.

Deanna Minich (12:33.378)
that person is aquamarine at their core. They have like this aquamarine vibe. But then we bring in different colors as we go because truly we're all the full spectrum. It's just that we're bringing through different things at different times, I think.

Sally (12:49.171)
Yeah, like a soul signature in a way. So we got to orange, let's do yellow. So tell me what you feel about these different colours because I think our listeners might enjoy this actually.

Deanna Minich (12:51.671)
Yeah.

Deanna Minich (12:56.503)
Yeah.

Deanna Minich (13:02.252)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I would encourage everybody to be thinking about, I'm sure they are by now, their favorite colors. So yellow. Yellow is the color of happiness, joy, optimism. You think of sunshine, even if you think of like a smiley face, typically it's like yellow with two black eyes and a black mouth. You think of a banana like a smile. The yellow

part of us, I equate with the digestive system or the fire element. It's the seed of transformation. It's how we rot and ripen and take something and turn it into ourselves, our being. And then we get the gold currency of ATP. So yellow is, in fact, you know, it's interesting that you were working on your kitchen because in one of the homes that I lived in, I did every room a certain color.

And it was a very intense hyperpigmented color. And for my kitchen, I saw the kitchen as the fire element. So I painted that like I sponged it like this deep yellow because I wanted that sense of warmth. So, yeah, in general. And in fact, there is a study from Manchester, England, where and this was some time ago, I would say probably seven to eight years ago, they did the color wheel study and they surveyed people.

on what their favorite color was and then they assessed their mood state and they found that people that had a normal mood like not depressed or anxious tended to pick yellow like the kind of yellow that you would think of like not a muted yellow not a green yellow but like yellow like the smiley face yellow. So that's interesting and they also did another study in which they surveyed children and they asked children

Sally (14:41.148)
Hahaha

Deanna Minich (14:51.72)
what they sensed when they were looking at certain colors like yellow and the children collectively, what they reported were things like, you know, just a sense of happiness, like it was their birthday, was celebration. So yeah, some people like yellow. When I think of yellow with food, however, yellow is a tricky one because I think that we get a lot of yellow, you know, cakes, cookies, crackers, breads, cereals.

Yellow is, it can also be refined carbohydrates. So in terms of energy, you know, again, like looking at fire transformation, like sometimes we have too much yellow where we feel burnt out. And then we move from yellow into more of a crisp brown because yeah, we, and then we need to kind of ground, go back and be inspired again. So yellow is an interesting color from that perspective.

Sally (15:50.695)
really interesting so it's like the color of assimilation.

Deanna Minich (15:54.808)
Mm-hmm, exactly.

Sally (15:55.701)
when we're, yeah, yeah, okay. And like you say, those yellowy type foods might give us too much energy and burn us out because they're highly calorific, you know, like the wheat and the cakes and the cream and the butter and that sort of thing, perhaps. I often find that, go on.

Deanna Minich (16:17.134)
Yeah, and not even just calories, but processed carbohydrates. So quick sugar into the bloodstream, right? So it's like energy immediately. But you also have yellow foods that the energy is slower released. Like I think of prebiotic starches and squashes and even seeds that are a little bit yellow tan. So, you know, there's a spectrum to every color in that way. Yeah.

Sally (16:43.851)
Sure, that makes sense. Yeah, okay. So then we're moving up, are we moving up to green? Or is there like turquoise? I can't remember now.

Deanna Minich (16:49.207)
Yes?

Yeah, green is next. so by the way, this is kind of the operating system that I use, the seven systems chart. And this is what we're going through right now. So the next color would be green. And green is the color, if we're just thinking up on the body, green is the color of the heart. It's the color of, know, many people think that red is the connection to the heart. Red is a connection to kind of like blood and life force and

Sally (16:58.122)
Deanna Minich (17:20.002)
you know, the passion and the invigoration of feeling that blood flow. But the heart is actually connected to the lungs and, you know, kind of in this center portion of the body. And I liken this to like a tree, in the leaves on a tree, you know, giving us oxygen. When we think of opening the blood vessels through leafy greens, leafy greens have things like folate, magnesium,

potassium, nitrates, all of these things help our blood vessels just to relax and open up. Yeah, and green is a very healing color. When you look at the associations that people have with green, it's seen as healing, health, nature, kind of the sense of harmony. You know, we might also hear a phrase like green with envy. know, green in all of the different spectra have their own

you know, like a darker shade, deeply huge shade versus a lighter, like a lime green versus a sage green. But when I'm talking green, I'm just talking kind of like the general green that we think of like with a tree and leaves of a tree. a plant. Yeah, a corafil.

Sally (18:32.705)
So like the essence, the pure, the pure colours. The chlorophyll, yes. So chlorophyll, that's the... it's almost like the blood of the plant, is that right?

Deanna Minich (18:45.984)
It is the blood of the plant. And if you look at the structure of chlorophyll and the structure of our hemoglobin in our blood, they look very similar. The only difference is that the chlorophyll has magnesium at its core and we have iron at our core, right? So it's kind of like, it is representative of, again, the life force of that plant, the chlorophyll. It's what actually, yeah.

Sally (19:12.831)
can start to see. Sorry, go on. Go on.

Deanna Minich (19:16.564)
I was just going to say that the chlorophyll is what helps the plant to capture the energy of the sunlight, right, through photosynthesis. So that enables it to give it energy.

Sally (19:27.317)
Yeah, that makes sense. I can totally see how you've synthesized all of this knowledge and sort of seen patterns and created, like you must have gone down some real rabbit holes to get all of this. I can see you sort of downloading all this information and creating it and structuring it and going, having these aha moments as you go through your day.

Deanna Minich (19:51.682)
Yeah, yeah, in some ways, yes. And then when I would see people clinically and like work with them, I would start to see that there were patterns like, this person is not eating enough green foods. They have like heart issues. Like I started to put it together kind of organically. And again, just also harkening back to like the chakra system, kind of looking at like these color associations within us. But then I started to see it as like food and

Like there was a deeper connection to like what that meant based on science too. As far as blue green, blue green is an interesting one because sometimes it's referred to as turquoise. Sometimes it's called aquamarine. Sometimes it's called blue green or green blue. There aren't many blue green foods. So in my book, The Rainbow Diet, you know, I don't really go into blue green, but metaphorically,

Sally (20:24.939)
Yeah. Yeah.

Deanna Minich (20:49.75)
When I do talk about blue green, I talk about green plants that grow in the blue ocean or the blue water. So what that means is more like sea plants. And sea plants are very rich in minerals that would feed the thyroid. So you can see I'm kind of connecting, I'm moving up in the body. We're gonna go up into the brain next, but yes. So blue green, and that's not something that...

I would say that in the UK or even in the US that we eat a lot of, we don't eat a lot of seed plants and we have a lot of thyroid issues in the US, especially in women. And if you look at places like Japan or other parts of Asia, they make seed plants like a regular part of their lives through broths or soups or stir fries. And I think that that's an essential part of our

diet. That's like whole other family. It's kind of like fungi where, you know, it's so complex. Sea plants, I don't call them seaweeds because I, there's a connotation to weed. You know, I see it as a purposeful plant in the ocean, but they're so medicinal. They can help us with satiety, with appetite. You know, so many of these like highly signaling molecules in those sea plants because they have the stress of the water.

Sally (21:58.849)
Mmm.

Deanna Minich (22:11.308)
Right? So then they start much like a land plant would create chemicals based on the air, the pests, the altitude, maybe it's up in the mountainous region. So it's going to create phytochemicals based on that. A seed plant will have different stressors. It may have temperature. It may have like the movement of the water. It might have fish nibbling at it.

So it's going to have like different stressors and yeah, in some way that translates into its phytochemicals and its composition.

Sally (22:46.913)
Mmm. Yeah, never thought of that. But of course it would do, wouldn't it? And that will translate in. Spirulina. I've seen, I've seen spirulina drinks turn aquamarine. That turquoisey colour. And that's is that a sea plant?

Deanna Minich (22:59.48)
Yeah, that's right.

Well, it is, it's not tech, I do put it in that category. But yeah, because it is that deep, huge, it's almost between an emerald green and like a blue green, right? It's deeply huge with chlorophyll, but typically there is a water component in developing, creating spirulina. So yeah, I would put spirulina there. And also spirulina is very rich in lots of different nutrients, minerals, essential fatty acids.

So yeah, I would put it in that category. That's a good mention, spirulina. There are other like algal type of substances. Like there's one of them where it's like bright blue. You know, again, it doesn't have to be that specifically. I'm looking at kind of like the color as it meets the nutrients, as it meets the symbolism. So when I think of blue green, I think of, you know, our truth, our thyroid, our throat.

Sally (23:36.671)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Deanna Minich (24:02.484)
our connection to speaking and being authentic. Yeah.

Sally (24:05.877)
Yeah, our voice. Yeah, our authenticity, as you say. Okay, I'm loving this. Right, so third eye, what are we talking about here?

Deanna Minich (24:15.118)
This one, hands down, if you look at the literature, the scientific literature, this one to me was a no brainer, which pun intended there. So when we think of the brain, when we think of the brain matter and the eyes, I put the eyes here together with the brain because truly they're actually the, you know, the optic nerve goes right to the brain and, you know, it's very, it's all connected. So the color for the brain is blue, purple, black.

So I string these together, blue, purple, black, because they have some shared phytochemicals like anthocyanins, anthocyanidins, proanthocyanins, proanthocyanidins. These are typically found in higher amounts in these blue, purple, black foods, which aren't very common. But just to give you a short list, blueberries are the obvious choice. Blackberries, we think of prunes, plums.

raisins, purple grapes. And I do think that purple, and even like if you have the opportunity to choose a purple color of a food, when it normally occurs in a different color, like let's just take potatoes. So yellow potatoes, red potatoes, white potato, I mean, there are many different varieties. But whenever I see purple potatoes, that's the one that I choose because it's almost like you're having a value add to that potato.

that you wouldn't have otherwise with the other varieties.

Sally (25:46.953)
love that, makes so much sense, like when you see sweet potatoes and they're orange but you also get the purple variety which must be like augmented, I always think there's more in there you know so I'll get the purple variety and the carrots as well, you've got the yellow carrots which seem like there's less in there than the orange carrot and then the purple carrot seems like the best, so I love that you said that yeah.

Deanna Minich (25:54.029)
Yes.

Deanna Minich (26:13.932)
Yeah, and actually there was an analysis, a published analysis and a research paper saying that the purple carrots were like two to almost three times greater in nutrients compared to their orange variety, which is, and that doesn't mean never choose orange. What this suggests is like when you see purple carrots at the store, they don't always appear, right? They tend to be more seasonal. So it would be best to select them.

when they are available. But you'll be getting different nutrients from the orange carrots too. You'll get the beta carotene, you'll get some of the other carotenoids. So you'll get those in greater proportions. So I don't want to shun a certain food, but I do want to say that, yeah, mean, purple is one of those colors that I think people miss in their diets because there aren't so many foods that are purple.

Sally (26:59.499)
We're not discriminating.

Sally (27:11.125)
Yeah and so do they actually feed this area? Is it the pineal gland we're talking about or is that the crown centre?

Deanna Minich (27:22.2)
Well, actually, I'm referring more to the hypothalamic pituitary area of the brain. So right in the middle of the head, because that's like the master control center for a lot of the other endocrine glands. But just if we think of, let's just think of the brain as it relates to cognition, thinking, memory, learning, mood state. What we see is that many of these colorful compounds do play a role in those processes.

Sally (27:26.209)
Mm.

Deanna Minich (27:50.646)
And in fact, there's been some research to suggest that those compounds even go into certain parts of the brain that are responsible for those functions. Now, the pineal gland is a little bit different. The pineal gland is also in the brain. It's very small, kind of sits back a little bit. And the way that I see the pineal gland is that it connects to white. So, and the reason I say that is because it's almost like the pineal gland, if you want to liken it

to a chakra, I would call it more the crown chakra. So it is kind of like the sense of connection, the sense to all of life. White would be the color when you have white light going through a prism, you see all the colors. So it's kind of like you take sunlight, and then you run that through and you see, we have the rainbow here, but you don't see it outright. And melatonin is one of the products

that we make from the pineal gland and we make it in response to darkness. So the ability of us to have the proper amounts of sunlight and darkness and kind of like that yin yang and making sure that we're getting just the right amount of both of those is key. I also liken the pineal gland and white to talk about fasting. So not having any

food and having the blank slate of just clearing, cleansing, detoxifying. You know, a lot of what happens at night when we are sleeping is that our brain detoxifies and melatonin plays a role in that in carrying out a lot of those toxic metabolites from the brain. So I think about just clearance. You know, when we're sleeping, we're not eating, right? So it's just like blank slate, reset.

pushing that inner button of clarity.

Sally (29:51.681)
Mmm, beautiful. That, honestly, your, that model just is making me see foods and biological functions and parts of the body quite differently, you know, synergizing, bringing things together. So that makes a lot of sense. And what you've said about fasting as well, it's just like, let things rest, let things empty, let the body kind of do what the body is going to do, like let it heal, let its processes run.

Deanna Minich (30:20.206)
Yeah.

Sally (30:21.503)
trust the body to do its thing in a way. Yeah.

Deanna Minich (30:25.134)
Absolutely. Rejuvenate, rejuvenate and restore at night. And sometimes we need to do that without food. You know, to eat during the light and to fast or not eat during the darkness. That's kind of like how we're wired. But of course, with the invention of artificial light, we have overridden a lot of our natural rhythms and

Sally (30:31.521)
Mm.

Deanna Minich (30:48.824)
to our detriment, I would say, because yes, we've become more productive, but we've become also very unhealthy because artificial blue light is actually an endocrine disruptor. It's disrupting your endocrine system. So the more that we can find ourselves into that healthy day night cycle, it's almost like I even think about starting there because if we are working within nature's rhythms,

everything else just kind of aligns, right? And like, we go to bed, we, when we're sleeping well enough, then our immune system is working well. We're in a better mood state the next day, our appetite is more regulated, we're not craving carbs constantly to get energy, our digestion is better. So it's almost like, even though we started with red, kind of the bottom up, we could say, well, actually, if we start from the top down,

and connect with nature, you know, it doesn't have to be so complicated, right? Like even in the Rainbow Diet, I talk about four things, color, which we just went through, creativity, diversity, like changing up your patterns of eating and living, and rhythm. And what I'm really speaking to here is the rhythm piece of like seasonal rhythms.

menstrual rhythms, lunar rhythms, planetary rhythms, day-night rhythms. We try to buck those and just kind of do our own thing. And to a certain point, we're able to do that. But then there is a cost, ultimately, to consistently doing that over our lifetimes.

Sally (32:29.537)
Rhythm is such an important part of definitely being a woman, having someone, know, being a person with a cycle. I think it's so incredibly important to understand and listen to those rhythms. And we have rhythms all the time. We have the day night cycle. We have the days of the week. We have the months of the year. We have temperatures. We have years. You know, we have the age that we are.

so many rhythms that we're going through all the time and to ignore that especially around menopause I think often that's why we can have problems at menopause you know when we're not adhering to that yeah what's your take on that?

Deanna Minich (33:07.19)
Yes, I do think so.

Deanna Minich (33:12.814)
100%, I agree with you. And in fact, you it's kind of interesting because when I was cycling, so I'm 54, I'm post-menopausal now, but when I was cycling, what I really tried to do was to structure my life based on my menstrual cycle. So during the first 14 days of follicular phase, when I had a lot of energy, I would try to do most of my outward active,

young activities. Like I would be traveling, I would try to structure my travel. Like I'd actually look at my calendar and see like I try to like look at when I would be getting my period and then try to like retrofit certain things that I had to do because I just knew that I wouldn't be optimal if I had to do that during my luteal phase or during my menstrual when I was actually bleeding, right? So it was like, okay, I'm going to try to like work that in somehow.

Fortunately, I was able to do that to some degree. But what's really interesting, and I've never mentioned this on a podcast before, but it's just coming to me now, is I also notice now being postmenopausal, like there's still an imprint of that cycle. Even though I don't have a menstrual cycle anymore, I do notice a flux of energy. And it might be connected to the moon, I'm not sure exactly, or it's just my own rhythm where

I do notice that at certain times of the month, I have more energy than at other times. And it's almost like it's a little bit of an imprint of what I had when I was cycling. So I don't know if I'll lose that as I get older, but long story short, we are connected to rhythms. We're connected to nature. The other rhythm that most people don't think about is your month of birth. So there's actual science showing that the month that you were born in,

could set the stage for certain susceptibilities or certain things later in life. And why is that? I mean, it's not predetermining what your eventual outcome will be, but there was a study in which they looked at thousands of hospital records. And this was in New York, New York state in the US. And basically they were looking at what did people die of? When were their birthdays? And then they created kind of this association and they showed like,

Deanna Minich (35:33.55)
Well, basically, if you were born in certain months, you might have more risk. mean, the risk was still relatively small, but wouldn't you want to know that? Like if you were born in March versus November, just to watch for certain things. And the reason for that is to look at, like, if you think of your development in utero and when...

you were going through that development from a seasonal perspective, right? And did your mother have vitamin D at certain times of the year to prime the development of certain systems? So I just think it's something to think about. Like my birthday's in December. So every December, even though it's kind of a crowded month, I really do aim to get all of my lab tests done. To me, that's like my time zero. It's not January, it's December. So I really try to get in, get my labs.

Any kind of tests, I just kind of like push the reset and say, okay, this is my rhythm. For other people, it might be April, like time zero, April. Like every April, I'm gonna give this to myself where I'm going to focus on my health and healing and get all of my data, get all of my labs. Because again, you know, that's kind of like your rhythm then, like from that point forward.

Sally (36:51.539)
Yeah, it's sort of like day one, isn't it, in a way? You can start like your clean slate, you can start from there on your birthday date going forward. Yeah, it makes sense. I've never thought of that, but you're absolutely right. You know, the quality of whatever your mother was going through when she was, when you were in utero in the womb, that will have had an impact. The temperature, what was going on.

Deanna Minich (37:15.618)
Yes.

Sally (37:17.759)
what she was eating, what she was drinking, whatever, the relationships that she was having. Yeah, it all goes some way to, you know, imprinting us with certain qualities or, you know, rhythmic associations. Yeah, never, never even thought of that.

Deanna Minich (37:33.674)
It's amazing. Isn't a human body, isn't like, this is why I went into science and medical science is because like the human body is like a universe. It's like we spend our lifetimes in bodies that we seek to understand. You know, we're constantly trying to understand ourselves like we can't see inside. You know, we get indirect measurements through labs or through scans, but it's like, gosh, we are like.

We're like the galaxy, we're so complex and intriguing and mysterious. And, you know, it's just, think the human body is really beautiful in its way.

Sally (38:12.361)
Yeah, it's phenomenal. So we haven't got much time left together, but I would love to just chat a little bit about menopause and the kind of functional medicine take on menopause and why everyone's menopausal experience is different, what could potentially help menopause as well from a nutritional point of view and also perhaps from a colour point of view too.

Deanna Minich (38:44.268)
That's great. I love that question. And actually, we could go for hours on this one. But let's just start to unpack it from a functional medicine point of view. When I think of menopause, what is menopause? Menopause signals the decline of the entire endocrine circuit. Right? So we start, you know, many times we just hear about the ovaries, but really it's the decline of communication and overall function.

of the endocrine circuit. So it becomes less robust. And that might be because of our age, our genetics, our diet, our stress, our lifestyle. There can be many different things that compound and move us into menopause faster than somebody else, right? So that's something first and foremost to consider. But can you actually optimize your endocrine system?

so that you can push menopause out a bit or even that when you do go through that transition that you lessen some of the symptoms, the answer is yes. So some of the things just to start with food because that's my training, right? We look at quality protein, healthy fats. You know, one of the basics is just looking at helping to reduce inflammation in the body.

because otherwise if the body is inflamed and stressed and high cortisol, high glucose, high insulin, high cytokine activity, then we start to set the stage for things like hot flashes, sleep disturbance, joint pain. You know, we start to see even more inflammation. So that's why healthy fats would definitely come into play. So things like omega-3 supplementation. I think about healthy carbohydrates.

higher fiber to help women to nourish their gut microbiome. Because we know that as a woman moves into menopause, her gut microbiome actually changes. It starts to resemble more of a man's microbiome. So that's kind of interesting, right? And we know that the microbiome plays a role in the gut, brain, immune, detoxification systems. I mean, there's pretty much not

Deanna Minich (40:57.782)
there's not too much that the gut microbiome isn't connected to. So we do need to ensure that we have a healthy gut microbiome. Once we've got the macronutrients, the protein, carbohydrate and fat lined up and solid, and again, with menopause, we might need a little bit more quality protein than we would have in our younger years because our musculoskeletal system might need some more support. Once we have that foundation,

We need to start thinking about the micronutrients, vitamins and minerals, and then of course the phytonutrients. So the different plant compounds that we've been talking about with the color. One of the other aspects that I've been working on is maca. Maca is a plant. Maca is, it looks like a of like a beet, you know, it's a tuber, it grows in the earth, and then it has some greens above ground. And I

done some work on maca and essentially published a paper with our research team at Symphony Natural Health showing that there are 17 different kinds of maca. And each kind of maca has its own DNA, its different phytochemical profile and corresponding physiological effects. So if somebody has a different kind of maca that they're taking and they're looking for a certain result, they may not actually get it unless

it corresponds to what the physiological signal would be. So there is a type of supplement called Feminessence. Feminessence are clinically tested proprietary blends of certain known maca phenotypes that help with women's health. And there are different of these blends for premenopause, perimenopause, and even postmenopause. And what we see with these blends is that

they help to encourage the communication of the endocrine system. So the hypothalamus, the pituitary, the thyroid, the adrenals and the ovaries. So I think, you know, one of the things I see on social media, Sally, is that women rush to taking hormones. And I think that if they rush to taking hormones without addressing a lot of these different things, it's not going to solve the problem and just take everything away, right?

Sally (43:11.637)
Yeah.

Deanna Minich (43:23.574)
I think we need to start with the food. We need that good, healthy foundation. We need to be looking at proper physical activity, looking at our sleep. It's kind of like we need to re-examine everything. And the sooner we can do that, I think the better. And then if we need something like Feminessence to kind of come in and help to optimize and regulate the endocrine circuit to enable our body to do its best with hormone production, the last thing

Sally (43:36.128)
Yeah.

Deanna Minich (43:52.928)
in my opinion to do, and if it needs to be done, because it may not even need to be done, is then to take something like menopausal hormone therapy, right? Which right now it just feels like people are feeling kind of like the pressure to do that, but without the underpinning the functional medicine foundations, if you will, in order to like better establish a foundation if they do choose to take those.

Sally (44:05.857)
Sorry.

Deanna Minich (44:22.807)
those hormones.

Sally (44:24.405)
Yeah, I totally see what you're saying because if you put HRT on to a system that is, you're still putting really unhelpful foods in the body, still eating a lot of sugar, drinking a lot of alcohol, you could potentially be making yourself worse because you're not clearing those detoxification pathways. Excuse me, I'm going to cough. Right, it's a good time for me to have a cough.

Yeah, need that, I think, because these reproductive phases that we go through like menopause can be such an upheaval to the body and the psyche, you know, and the nervous system. All the trauma can come up to the surface as well. So, you know, that's my specialty is helping people through their childhood trauma and, you know, putting themselves back together again from a sort of behavioral point of view.

Deanna Minich (45:02.851)
Yeah.

Sally (45:21.825)
from an energetic point of view as well. I, and I do think that because we live in such a medical centric world where medicine is front and center of everyone's viewpoint, point of view, whatever, you know, you walk down the street, you see pharmacies, you don't see natural health clinics.

Deanna Minich (45:44.696)
Yeah. Right.

Sally (45:47.977)
You might see a natural health clinic, but you see an awful lot of pharmacies, like pharmacy first, medicine first. Whereas I think what I like about the functional medicine approach and the trauma informed approach is it's more diet first, lifestyle first. And then if you need an intervention, a medical intervention, it's much more likely to have an impact. You know, if you're applying it into a system that has already got

Deanna Minich (46:07.022)
Yeah.

Sally (46:17.951)
a very good level of health and wellbeing and all the systems are working as they should. So yeah, I love what you've said there. It makes perfect sense.

Deanna Minich (46:24.972)
Yeah, you said it really beautifully. know, it's a root cause to menopause is how I see it. And menopause is not just a hormone deficiency. It's much bigger than that, right? We're transitioning into a new body, a new mind, a new vasculature. So I think taking all those steps to look at root causes per functional medicine, you know, again, optimizing the body to do what it can do best.

Sally (46:49.056)
Hmm.

Deanna Minich (46:53.954)
before medicalizing it, as you mentioned. And I feel like what is happening is that menopause is becoming more medicalized. It's kind of like, it's just a binary approach. If you are menopausal, take hormones. You have these mood swings, take the hormones. You have the hot flashes, just take the hormones. And sure, you can see a remediation of some of those symptoms to some degree, depending on the woman, but you're still not addressing the deeper

Sally (46:56.831)
Yeah.

Deanna Minich (47:23.49)
I would say her physiology and her psychology and really priming all of the systems to work in harmony, like a symphony, right? It's just kind of like, you're just kind of tossing something in to kind of patch it over without really optimizing and listening to the body. So it's like, it takes us back to the color conversation, right? It's kind of like the art, the soulfulness of being a woman in her prime.

Sally (47:42.837)
Yeah.

Deanna Minich (47:52.278)
moving into this stage of being an elder, right? Being in that seat of being wise and full and rich of experience. So anyway, I mean, every woman has her own path. And it's just nice to talk with you about a different way potentially, or many different ways up that mountain of healing, right? That it doesn't just have to be exogenous hormones. Like you can work with plants.

Sally (48:01.749)
Yeah.

Sally (48:14.271)
Yeah.

Deanna Minich (48:20.716)
that can help to optimize hormones naturally. can work with diet, can work with goodness. Even physical activity can change so many different things, right? Small changes during this time of life can actually have large impact. It's just that we have to do the work. We have to like put in the time and self-care. And Sally, I feel like one of the things that women start to learn when they go through menopause is the value of self-care.

It's like, okay, I didn't do all these things. I did all these shortcuts. But when you go through menopause, it's like now is the time to take the deep dive into yourself and to really engage in self care and healing and spend the time on yourself because you're worth it. You deserve it. And that is going to change the second half of your life in dramatic ways.

Sally (49:10.527)
Yeah. Yes, we need you to feel good. We need all of you listening to feel good because you're part of the menopause team, know, the team of wise elder women going forward, nurturing those younger people, nurturing your kids, your grandkids. We need you to be well. So listen to what Deanna's got to say.

Deanna Minich (49:30.21)
Yes.

Sally (49:33.429)
Get her books, I know I'm gonna be getting your books, I can't wait. I love colour and to bring colour into my meals is gonna be amazing. And to use colour intentionally, I think, is a really lovely thing. So thank you so much. Where are you most active on social media, Deanna?

Deanna Minich (49:39.182)
Thank

Deanna Minich (49:52.194)
I would say if you go to my website dianaminic.com, you'll see all of the links there. They're all a little bit different. So I have a Facebook professional page and I give more sciencey things there. I also have a Facebook group that I'm more active in. It's called Nourish Your Whole Self Community and you're free to be a member of that. Then Instagram is more of my, hmm, I would say my artistic display. I don't,

Sally (50:05.057)
Mm-hmm.

Deanna Minich (50:22.08)
Instagram is where I kind of get to play artistically and creatively with more energetic concepts, but I do sprinkle in science there as well, but you will find more of the energy and color pieces there, I would say.

Sally (50:38.315)
Yeah, I love it. I love it. Okay, I'm gonna put all of your links in the show notes. So if you've enjoyed listening to Deanna and you've been inspired by her, then please do go follow her on her social channels, buy her books, have a little look at her website and work with her if you've been inspired. Thank you so much, Deanna. I've loved talking to you. It's been amazing.

Deanna Minich (51:00.376)
Thank you. It's been great. Thank you, Sally.

Sally (51:03.263)
You're welcome.