191 Emotional Health and Menopause with Hanna Kok

Join me and Hannah Kok in our beautiful conversation all around the subject of  emotional health and menopause.

Hannah is a coach, author, and creator of the iThrive web app. And in this conversation, we talk about:

🌱 Hannah's Journey and Discovering Kinesiology

🌱 Understanding Medical Intuition and Theta Healing

🌱 A Unique Approach to Menopause

🌱 The Impact of Grudges on Health

🌱 Emotional Correlations of Menopause Symptoms

🌱 Exploring Kinesiology and Muscle Testing

🌱 Connecting Muscles and the Subconscious Mind

🌱 The Power of the Subconscious Mind

🌱 Introducing the iThrive App

🌱 Success Stories and Real-Life Impact

🌱 Mind-Body Connection and Emotional Healing

So if you’re ready to be educated and inspired, tune in now. 

DM me for the link or see link in bio or just search The Menopause Mindset episode 191

Hannah Kok’s Links:

iThrive: www.ithrive.com

Website: www.thelife-youwant.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hanna-kok/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ithrivezone

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ithrivezone/

Sally's Links:

[Free Guide] Healing The Trauma Underlying Your Menopause Symptom Severity:  https://www.sallygarozzo.com/healingtraumatheguide

[On Demand Masterclass 2 hours] How To Heal The Trauma Underlying Your Menopause Symptom Severity [£17] https://www.sallygarozzo.com/healingtrauma

[On Demand Workshop] Redefine Your Values at Menopause and Live Life in Alignment With Them [£27] https://www.sallygarozzo.com/redefine 

[Online Practitioners Diploma - Self Paced] Menopause Wellbeing Practitioner [£127] https://www.sallygarozzo.com/meno

[One to One] Transformational 30 Day Rewire (Includes RTT) [£447]: https://www.sallygarozzo.com/rapid-transformational-therapist

Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/sallygarozzomindmentor

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sallygarozzo/

Send me a voice clip via WhatsApp - https://wa.me/message/FTARBMO7CRLEL1

Transcript

Sally (00:01.23)
So my guest today is the lovely Hannah Cock. Hannah was born in the Netherlands and has been living in South Africa for the last 40 years. She's a coach, an author and a speaker. She's also the creator of the revolutionary iThrive web app. People who use the iThrive app have seen a significant improvement in their physical and mental health. For example, their allergy symptoms are minimized.

And women seem to have been able to have reduced their menstrual problems by around 85%, which is amazing. And menopause symptoms have been impacted too in a positive way. So the iThrive app has also been successful in reducing stress and anxiety and building and creating self-esteem and helping improve focus and concentration. So Hannah, welcome to the podcast today. How are you?

Hanna Kok (00:56.104)
I'm great Sally and thank you so much for this opportunity of being here.

Sally (01:01.432)
You're very welcome. I'm excited to talk to you. So tell us a little bit more about you, your journey and how you got into doing what it is that you do today.

Hanna Kok (01:14.188)
Well, as you mentioned, 40 years ago, I moved from the Netherlands to Southern Africa. And the reason for that was that I am trained as a teacher. And one day I was looking at my school bag and I thought, this bag has gone from school to school to school, because I had it in high school, college. And then as I was teaching, I thought, what do I know about life? And that is when I decided it is time to explore more about

what's going on in the world. And I wrote to people all over the world, you know, see if I was a place somewhere where I could earn board and lodging. And I ended up in Le Soutu. I've never heard of the place. I had to look it up on the map. And it's a little landlocked country inside of South Africa. And here I met my first husband. And instead of saying for six months, I, well, I'm still this part of the world. So it's been a long six months. I always say,

And while I was there, I was introduced to something called educational kinesiology. A lady from the States came to visit and she taught me all of this stuff. And I really loved it because it was giving me the answers I'd been looking for. Because you know how it is that we taught we need to change our behavior and we try to force ourselves to change the behavior, but it never works. And with this educational kinesiology or brain gym is an easier word.

I learned techniques to shift the subconscious mind so that the new behavior became easy. Now my husband and I had been talking about making a life instead of making a living. Because most of us end up making a living, you know, just to pay the bills. And then he tragically died and I thought this is the time to make a life for myself.

this is a time to stop running this trading station that we were running. Let's do something to impact, you know, be of support to humanity. And that's when I started doing this work. And then later I also qualified as an allergy practitioner and a medical intuitive. So, and that's what I'm making a life now and change the name a little bit to the life you want, but it's still all about that.

Sally (03:31.47)
Sally (03:35.19)
I'm fascinated with this idea of being a medical intuitive. Can you explain a little bit more about that and how kinesiology sort of ties in with that? And also, how did you get to be an intuitive? Like what had to happen? There are no exams you have to take, I presume. Or maybe there are, I don't know.

Hanna Kok (04:01.364)
Okay, being trained as a medical intuitive, so I'm trained through a modality called theta healing. And that is about when you go into the theta brainwave, you become naturally intuitive. So everybody can learn it, you just need to practice it. And then in the training, we also looked at symptoms.

Sally (04:22.819)
Yeah.

Hanna Kok (04:29.366)
because it's all about the mind-body connection. And the kinesiology does the same thing. We work with there also like what is locked in the body that is causing an imbalance that then can manifest as an illness or any unwanted symptoms. So as the medical intuitive, we also looked at the hormonal stuff and

As one day I was listening to a podcast on menopause and they were talking about skin problems and hot flashes and all sorts of things. I'm going like, and I was listening with my husband because we were driving somewhere. I said, skin problems, that is about relationships and connecting with people. And so if you have problems, maybe you have problems in connecting with people and heart problems is about the love that you feel. And so I started to unpack.

all these symptoms that were described from menopause on this podcast. And then my husband said, but I also went through those things. And that's when I started making recordings for my iThrive web app on menopause and monopause, because I realized that that time of our life is really about re-evaluating what is going on.

Sally (05:50.444)
Yeah, it really is. It really is. And just coming back to what you said about the theta brainwaves state and accessing those theta brainwaves making you more intuitive, it's so true. Because I'm a hypnotherapist and so I'm working with the theta brainwave states a lot. I find actually across the menopause transition and because of

the brain changes that happen during menopause and because of the hypnotherapy that I do, found myself very much operating in that theta brainwave state a lot of the time, so much so that I'm like forgetting my keys and forgetting why I'm going somewhere because I'm so zoomed out and in that bliss field a lot of the time, which is really lovely, but annoying for sort of practicalities.

But coming back to what you were saying about intuition, I have found my intuition so strong because of this sort of ability to be able to, you know, access this theta state. And like you say, it's a practice, isn't it? The more you do it, the more you kind of get used to it.

Hanna Kok (07:04.287)
Yeah.

Absolutely and and we all naturally go as you know as a hypnotherapist, know We go through that state twice a day naturally anyway as we wake up in the morning and as we fall asleep So really it is about being quiet So the theta brainwave state is great if you are sitting or lying down not when you're trying to go about your day as you say, but

It is about being quiet and then I like to project that's what we learn in the Theta Healing is to connect with the Divine in that state. Not in a religious way, but it can if people want to make it that it's fine, but it's about connecting with something bigger than you because there's so much wisdom there and that can then guide us what is going on in a person's body and what the issues are that are underlying the symptoms they are experiencing.

Sally (07:58.446)
Yeah.

Sally (08:03.566)
So that leads me to my next question. What makes your approach to menopause different from other solutions? Because you tend to think of approaches to menopause as being just sort of hormonal based. Let's apply a hormone, let's affect the hormones, but how's your approach different?

Hanna Kok (08:22.444)
Well, what I've noticed with the traditional approach, and I'm not saying that they're wrong, but I do believe they're missing the point, that they normally go about maybe hormone therapy, definitely change of diet and change of lifestyle and what you need to do to sleep more, et cetera. But people don't realize that they cannot sleep because actually there are things eating inside.

Sally (08:30.574)
You

Hanna Kok (08:49.566)
My favorite quote, I was working on my newsletter today about this subject is, it's not so much about what you eat, it's way more about what eats you. And in menopause, we become aware and we start to think, well, what have I done with my life? And then you look back on your life and you think, ooh, I'm not so happy with what I've done. And then that starts to eat, it keeps you awake. And then you think you have sleep problems.

Sally (09:15.352)
Thank

Hanna Kok (09:18.56)
because of hormonal changes. No, you have sleep problems because you have actually internal conflict. Now, the one thing that I've also learned through my kinesiology training is that in the body we have meridians. Now, meridians are these energy pathways that the acupuncturists stick needles in. And each meridian is affected by a particular thinking pattern.

And the thought pattern that sets the circulation sex meridian, which governs our hormonal system, is holding grudges. So, if we hold grudges towards ourselves or anybody else, it will affect our hormonal problems. Now, holding grudges also increases our stress.

and anxiety levels. Now after menopause, our adrenal glands are supposed to take over the hormonal production. But if we are stressed and anxious, all that material is used to create cortisol and whatever stress hormones. And then we really suffer. Yeah.

Sally (10:38.476)
Yeah, yeah very very interesting you talking about grudges. I was reflecting on this yesterday actually about the critic and the inner critic and how I mean you know everything that I'm saying I've noticed in myself and often when I see in the Facebook groups a lot of women complaining about their husbands complaining about their children and I get it

I get it absolutely 100 % but I've been doing some therapy on myself around certain minor grudges that I have and minor resentments that I have now because I've worked on quite a lot and I noticed as I was reading this book called Complex PTSD by Pete Walker he was talking a lot about the inner critic and how

when you, because when we're in the critic, we're very much in a flashback actually from the past when we felt abandoned or when we felt, you know, too much was put upon us or when our worth was depicted by how much we achieved, you know, in those sort of parental relationships and when...

When we are kind of acting out those grudges, as you say, in our adult life, especially through menopause, my God, it comes up in menopause, it's actually a flashback to the past where we weren't seen, where we weren't held in a loving space, when we weren't allowed to regulate. So I have quite an overactive flight response.

I kind of go into that like over achieving and over, what's the word, functioning. And my husband, bless him, has the opposite. He has quite an overactive freeze response. And that's his way of regulating actually. He will come home after a day at work and he will just want to go into his space or go down a rabbit hole. And in the morning he will be kind of, you know, laying in bed much longer than.

Sally (12:50.368)
I find tolerable and so that is always always always when my resentment will rise in the morning and I've been doing so much work around it with my therapist and I'm really starting to untangle it so you're right you're right it is those grudges what meridian did you say that was the hormonal

Hanna Kok (13:11.82)
It's called the circulation sex meridian. It's linked to the pericardium around the heart. it is, yeah, that regulates, is regulated by our grudges. Now, I always like to say, or ask people, what's your favorite furniture in your house? And then mine is the mirror.

Sally (13:19.022)
Hanna Kok (13:39.274)
And the reason why mine is the mirror is not because I like to look in the mirror, it's because I see everybody as a reflection of me. So if I am irritated with my husband, it's because he is bringing up where I am lacking, or he's bringing up the issues about how I'm treating myself. So as you say, if your husband is not doing what you're

Sally (14:03.277)
Mm.

Hanna Kok (14:07.418)
He's not as active as you would like him to be. Well, maybe there are certain things that you're judging yourself on and that is why you're irritated. And it's all about learning to love ourselves and be kind to ourselves, be gentle with ourselves, maybe be more laid back with ourselves.

Sally (14:14.424)
Yeah.

Sally (14:22.956)
Yeah and increasing that tolerance, yeah definitely increasing that tolerance isn't it and I think understanding that his way of regulating is different to my way of regulating and we're just different and that's okay and it's like when I can understand that within him I allow myself to

hold myself with compassion around my regulating strategies. Like, it's okay. I regulate by tidying up. I got it. He doesn't. He regulates differently. So in the same way he has to accept me buzzing around first thing in the morning, I have to accept him. And when it's taken a long time to get there, actually, I'm gonna be totally honest. It's not something that just comes overnight.

but it's so interesting to me. I'm so interested with these like sort of transactional relationship dynamics and how they do totally reflect and how they actually come up in menopause. I love it.

Hanna Kok (15:15.65)
Mm.

Hanna Kok (15:33.844)
Absolutely, and the thing is, they already come up in PMS, you know, with your periods. They already come up there, but then because it only lasts a few days or so, then we just skid over it. But if women would take time already then to say, what is troubling me? Because the veil goes away, you know, comes off. her name, Christiana Northrop.

Sally (15:38.83)
Yeah.

Hanna Kok (16:02.21)
who has written this book on women and their biology and everything. And she said in her book of, if you don't deal with your PMS, your menopause is going to be one big PMS. And it is about really becoming ourselves and becoming aware of what is important to us, what do we value. And the more we do that and the younger we do it,

Sally (16:16.578)
Yeah.

Hanna Kok (16:31.104)
the more gentle our menopause becomes.

Sally (16:34.934)
Yeah I love that. What was your menopause like Hannah if you don't mind me asking? Being a bit curious now.

Hanna Kok (16:40.8)
Yeah, yeah. No, look, I have had a hot flush every now and then, but I, like my mother, I've learned just ignore them. They're just, okay, well, that was that, just leave it at that. know, some women go like, and they bring so much attention to the hot flush and what you focus on actually grows. So I just played it down. I had some night sweats. Well,

So be it, then I just slept on a towel, then I could dry myself off if I was really wet. That was basically it, maybe a bit of heart flutters. That was it. Then I noticed I was starting to gain a bit of weight, but then I used my iThrive for optimal weight and that went away. So I didn't gain weight. I still feel strong and...

Sally (17:20.398)
Mmm.

Hanna Kok (17:36.322)
Somehow I did feel attracted to do a bit more weight training that does help as well But no, I don't feel any different from before and after just don't have those periods anymore

Sally (17:46.582)
I that, I love that, I love that. There's often two schools of thought isn't there, that there's this one school of thought that's really into it, looking at all the symptoms, really kind of keen and interested and sort of flagging everything up, I get that. But there's also the other side of the coin and like if you do too much of that, are you drawing too much attention to it? And there's this whole sort of expectation effect.

as well if we have like a negative expectation of menopause it can actually make our experience of it become more negative so I think there's definitely a delicate balance to have and and like you I try not to over dramatize symptoms it's like just a little gentle observation and you know

Hanna Kok (18:32.79)
Mm.

Sally (18:39.034)
Again, I'm just in that theta state a lot of the time. I'm zoomed out a lot of the time. So I think that helps. So yeah, thank you for sharing that.

Hanna Kok (18:45.314)
But also what is also very good is that when you do have that hot flush, it's like a little, it could be a little anger outburst, like then it's good to stand still, not like, I had a hot flush. Hmm. What triggered me here? Is there something I'm upset about? How can I deal with that? Or if you have your heart flutters, there could be some love issues you're dealing with, then

go and address that. So I'm not saying ignore and I don't say that you were interpreting me like that but I do want for the listeners to really understand. Don't just wipe your symptoms aside but instead of worrying about it go and think about what can you do about it? What is your body telling you?

There's a great book and when people will talk about a little later what my gift is for everybody but when they sign up for the gift they will also get this book called The Psychic Roots of Illnesses based on the work of Dr. Hammer. And then you can go and analyze your symptoms and see what the conflict is that you're dealing with and look for ways to resolve it. Then you are addressing the issue and the good news is

Sally (20:02.925)
Okay.

Hanna Kok (20:07.926)
then you're saving yourself a lot of health problems further down the line.

Sally (20:13.878)
Yeah, okay, that's really good. Are there any correlations between what you, are there any similar, any themes, any patterns that you see? For example, you mentioned insomnia as, you know, there's something eating away at you. What about hot flushes, heart palpitations, migraines, some of the other symptoms that you think, what were the emotional correlations to those symptoms?

Hanna Kok (20:41.91)
Well, there are a few very important ones. One is that, as I said, we are re-evaluating our life and we're going like, do I like what I've created and do I want to continue on this journey or not? Now, if we're hitting ourselves over the head, we're angry with ourselves, we might end up with migraines or things like that. But there's also like, am I still sexy? Am I still desirable? Am I still...

relevant and especially that one. One of the big problems that women have at older age and they say it comes after menopause is osteoporosis. And then people say, you must eat right and exercise. But what osteoporosis is about is am I still relevant? Am I still having a place in this world? And when we feel we don't because in the West we have this

idea that older people are a waste of space and that's how we judge ourselves, we start eating away at ourselves because our bone structure is all about self-esteem. So if we lose self-esteem because we're now older, because we think we're not sexy and desirable anymore, then we will break down.

Sally (21:53.454)
Hmm.

Hanna Kok (22:09.012)
our bone structure and it has an effect on our skin, it has effect on our heart because now we don't think we're lovable anymore, we'll be upset with ourselves and get these emotional outbursts, so there come your hot flashes and those are some of the symptoms and the thinking behind them.

Sally (22:28.746)
It's so interesting, isn't it? I've recently had like TMJ, neck pain, and just a lot of joint pain as well. And I recognize it's a lot of holding and that resentment that I spoke about before. And since I've been dealing with it, I've been a bit more mindful around that dynamic and actually really, really drilling down into the dynamic rather than kind of getting locked into it because

There's a bittersweet feeling, there's a self-righteous feeling isn't there, that can fuel the ego which can stop you from actually dropping down into it. And now I've dropped down into it and I'm really understanding it a lot more, in a lot more nuance. That pain has gone. That jaw pain has gone and the neck pain has gone. And the joint, you know, my joints are feeling so much better. It's so weird, but I love it.

Hanna Kok (23:27.082)
It is. The only thing is, as you mentioned earlier, you know, we've got that inner critic, that judge. And we think, if I go inside, I might find that there's something wrong with me and I cannot have that. So I'm not going to look inside. But if we look inside and if we can just connect with that inner, the inner five-year-old for that matter, that little girl or that little boy who desperately wants our love,

Sally (23:42.466)
Yeah.

Hanna Kok (23:57.44)
and we connect with that and we say, know what, no matter what, I support you, then we can gently look at ourselves without that judgment. That's the whole key. That's one of the things I learned from the kinesiology is that self observation without judgment.

Sally (24:10.584)
Yeah.

Sally (24:17.004)
yeah for those people that don't know what kinesiology is could you explain it a little bit

Hanna Kok (24:23.818)
Okay, so kinesiology, there are many forms of kinesiology, but what they have all in common is that they use something called muscle testing. So that you'll have an arm and you can stick it out and you say, me a yes, give me a no. And then you can, with that muscle testing, you can now connect with the subconscious mind what is going on inside. That's what they do. And then you can even...

They use the muscle testing also to say, okay, what do we need to do to resolve it? And then basically let the body guide you what is needed. And then the educational kinesiologist, we speak a lot more because we explain a lot of what we finding so that it's about becoming aware of like, your circulation sex hormone is meridian is out.

Are you dealing with a lack of forgiveness? Where are you holding grudges? And then you have a discussion around that and then you do something to resolve it and then the meridian switches on again, for example. The other kinesiologists tend to work on you and do things on you. I'm not saying every kinesiologist is like that, but that is my experience between the different kinesiology formats.

Sally (25:38.542)
So in the talking and the discussion, it's almost like the kinesiology plus the therapy is, the talking is like the therapeutic side of things. And that is helping the meridian change, the energy flow change, the unlocks in the mind and body occur in real time.

Hanna Kok (25:58.986)
Yeah, because now in regular therapy sessions, therapy, yeah, talk therapy, you have to, through talk, find out what the issue is, and then with talk you also have to change. You have to become aware of it, so there's three phases. You need to identify what it is, you need to be aware of it, and then you need to change it. Now, try to change all of that with talk therapy is hard. It takes a lot of time, and it can take you several sessions to address one issue.

If you use kinesiology or theta healing and even with your hypnosis, you identify the issue much quicker, then you could talk about it just to bring that awareness and then you can use other techniques being a kinesiology or your hypnosis or the theta systems to shift it and that's much quicker. once you are aware of what's going on,

You can never go back.

Sally (26:58.766)
Mmm.

Hanna Kok (27:00.596)
And that is so important to realize, it is about this. I'm still upset about my mother giving attention to the sibling that was born after I arrived or because I was born with a C-section, I could not decide when I wanted to come into this world. And then my whole life I'm struggling to make choices for me when I wanted to birth something. Just to give you some examples.

Sally (27:06.019)
Yeah.

Sally (27:28.503)
Hmm

Yeah, yeah, I love that. And it's these these new levels of awareness that we keep going to. It's almost like I always think of it as layers of an onion. I've also got this image of exfoliating the energy field as well. And like you're just kind of getting rid, getting rid, getting rid. Also, as you do that, you're

coming more into your own pure essence, which I think is what happens post menopause for a lot of women is like, it's almost like the traumas that we've been through compress our essence. They just squeeze the juice a bit like distilling aromatherapy oils. Everything is distilled down to its essence. And we become like the essential oil, the pure essential oil, providing we've...

done the inner work. If we don't do the inner work, we just end up with a plethora of coping strategies and illnesses and all sorts of issues. Oh my God, yeah.

Hanna Kok (28:24.842)
and becoming bitter, this bitter old people. Yeah. But you're so right about the essence. I also like to say, what do we like about young children? Is that they're so kind and loving and open. And then there are some elderly people that we know, that also that we respect. They are so kind and loving and accepting. And both of them have that pure essence.

And then what happened in between is that we find coping mechanisms and survival strategies. And then so you first build those up and now you're breaking them down. I do want to say though, that I, and I know I'm sure you're the same. It's not about constantly digging for, what has happened in my past and like cleaning it up because you can be digging your whole life. It's about moving forward. And then when you trip,

Sally (29:18.926)
You

Hanna Kok (29:21.906)
over something. When you have a symptom, when you have an illness, when you have a relationship problem that you can't avoid because if you're going to get divorced you're just going to get another man or woman with the same clothes on. You know it's about okay I have an issue here, this is my cosmic club, let me deal with it. That is when you do the inner work and then you go on your path until you trip again and then you do the next thing.

Sally (29:50.734)
Yeah, and it's like at Menopause a shitstorm of tripping over everything just comes up, doesn't it? Yeah.

Hanna Kok (29:59.106)
Definitely, definitely. But if you've been cleaning up before menopause, menopause will be way more of a breeze. So I was fortunate enough that I did a lot of inner work before my menopause came. And so my menopause was a breeze. Definitely.

Sally (30:05.346)
Thank

Sally (30:15.598)
That's great. So inspirational, thank you for sharing that. I have a little curiosity that came up when you were talking about kinesiology. How is it that the muscles connect with the subconscious mind?

Hanna Kok (30:32.534)
Well, let me do an experiment with you and then I will tell you how they are connected. But let's first experience it. I want you to think, close your eyes and think, and so your listeners only close your eyes if you're in a safe place to close your eyes, right? So close your eyes and think of your favorite place. It can be a holiday place with lovely people. Just focus on a really nice place.

Sally (30:35.99)
Okay.

Hanna Kok (31:03.498)
And as you're there, notice your muscles. How do they feel? How do your muscles feel, Sally?

Sally (31:12.824)
They feel springy. I feel like I could jump up and down.

Hanna Kok (31:20.202)
Are they relaxed or tight?

Sally (31:25.986)
Let me see. Yeah, they're relaxed. Yeah. Yeah.

Hanna Kok (31:29.238)
They are relaxed. Now I want you to think of standing next to an open sewer. You see the pieces of whatever coming past. Okay, let's go back to the holiday. But what happened when you're thinking of that horrible place? What happened to the muscles?

Sally (31:37.486)
Sally (31:50.702)
Yeah, well, I mean, was visceral. was like, I've got to get out of here. I've got to get out of here.

Hanna Kok (31:54.942)
Exactly, could see... you tensed up. So our mind, our subconscious mind absorbs... I'll tell you a little bit about that now, But our mind and our muscles are one. You can open your eyes again. Our mind and our muscles are directly linked. I mean, on a subconscious level, our subconscious brain knows exactly...

Sally (32:00.045)
Yeah.

Hanna Kok (32:25.698)
how much tension is in each muscle fiber. Not in each muscle, in each muscle fiber. You know when you eat meat you've got these strains, that's your muscle fibers. They've got receptors in each muscle fiber so that you know exactly in which position each limb is, how much tension is in each muscle, etc. So when you think of something horrible, it's like, I need to get out of here, immediately your body will move you away from it.

because it's something unwanted. It's instantaneously. Now the interesting thing is just to give you an idea of how much we process on a conscious and a subconscious level. Have you come across some of them? You might have. Consciously we absorb about 40 pieces of information per second. Subconsciously, do you know how much we absorb? Any idea? Have you heard?

Sally (33:19.918)
I think isn't it, subconscious processes are like 95 % of our behaviours and actions and thoughts are subconscious or unconscious.

Hanna Kok (33:28.361)
Yes.

Yes, but that is true. Our subconscious mind regulates 95 % of our behavior, but it absorbs a lot more information. It absorbs about 11 million pieces of information while we absorb 40 pieces of information consciously. To give that into perspective, okay, this is a book, this might be thousand pages.

Sally (33:42.84)
I see.

Sally (33:52.106)
Okay.

Hanna Kok (34:00.03)
Our subconscious mind could read that whole book, process the information of that whole book in two seconds. You know consciously how much we would be aware of that whole book.

Hanna Kok (34:14.658)
Two words.

Sally (34:16.236)
Okay.

Hanna Kok (34:18.764)
So, we are bombarded with information. Now the subconscious has to filter it out to two words and we think we know what's going on in our life. We've seen just a fraction of it. A fraction. Even if it wasn't a thousand page book, even if it was just a twenty page document, if you're only aware of one word, you still have no idea what the story is about.

And that's why we have to be so careful when we make judgements about our life and how we think it is. Because we filter just that one word. Now what decides the filtering is the big question. The filter is based on what we're focusing on that moment. It's based on our beliefs.

Sally (35:05.555)
Yeah, I see what you mean.

Hanna Kok (35:15.65)
and that can come from our upbringing and whatever traumas we've experienced. Yeah, so those are two of the major things that cause our filter. And when you change the filter...

Sally (35:20.174)
you

Sally (35:29.836)
Yeah, I have... Go on, when you change the filter you change...

Hanna Kok (35:35.802)
what you perceive or you start looking at what you're seeing differently.

Sally (35:37.304)
Yeah.

Sally (35:41.58)
Yeah, and then that can change the muscles, coming back full circle, talking about the muscles, yeah.

Hanna Kok (35:45.578)
Absolutely. Yes, absolutely, because now instead of seeing something as a threat, you realize, well, it's no big deal. I'm safe here, so now, yes, you're telling me a story about the sewage, but I'm not there. I don't have to tense up and you can relax again, or you can choose to think about something else. And then your muscles relax again.

Sally (35:55.598)
Mm.

Sally (36:09.614)
Yeah. Yes, okay, okay. So it's understanding what the drivers are that are infiltrating what we are making things mean. So I think the meaning is like the filter, isn't it? It's like, if I'm looking, so at the moment I'm having my kitchen decorated and I'm a whole new kitchen and I'm really tuned into these specific colors.

warm earthy tones, sage greens, terracotta, turquoisey tones, and I cannot stop seeing them everywhere I look. I'm like, you know, just everywhere. I don't see the black and the white and the yellow. I'm seeing, because it's got a huge meaning to me. But the same can be said of...

Hanna Kok (36:52.063)
Exactly.

Hanna Kok (37:02.741)
Exactly.

Sally (37:06.638)
crime for example, if crime has played a significant part of your life, if your mum and dad always had the news on and you absorbed it or if there's something in your nervous system that is hyper vigilant, your mind will make very very strong meaning out of that and therefore you will be so tuned into danger and what you really need to be careful of and

I was riding, so yesterday I was driving home and I could see there was a cyclist in front of me and I could see he was sort of a bit all over the place. My husband was really, really alert to him and he was flinching in the car and like, be careful. And I was just chatting about something in my theta state, kind of, you know, really feeling, just feeling empowered, feeling strong. And I knew he was there, but I didn't.

it didn't affect my muscles and my nervous system in the same way that affected my husband's because he had just come home from work full day in the hospital and quite tense and so he was quite hyper alert whereas I was really really chilled and so even though it was in my line of vision and my awareness I wasn't tuned into it as a real threat because I knew that I could my subconscious was doing the work and I knew that I could easily maneuver around him so I think that explains quite nicely what you were

saying there.

Hanna Kok (38:32.875)
Absolutely, and if he has been working in hospitals, he would have seen terrible accidents, or the victims of terrible accidents. And how often do cyclists get hit by cars? And so it's for him a relevant thing that he will go like, he will have that physiological reaction because he has that focus.

Sally (38:45.206)
Yeah.

Sally (38:57.686)
Yeah, yeah. So I get that now, because before when you were talking about how the muscle connects with the subconscious mind and you test it, I was like, how does that actually work? But I get it now. Yeah.

Hanna Kok (39:13.12)
Yeah, mean, subconsciously you know exactly what's going on and the muscles know it through that subconscious mind because that network with those muscle fibers, it's so elaborate.

Sally (39:27.19)
Yeah, we know nothing. We know nothing, don't we? Like seriously, the more I learn, the more I realise I know nothing. Okay, okay. So what else can I ask you? What time are we on? Let's talk about your iThrive app. I would love to learn a little bit more about your iThrive app. What is it? How does it help people?

Hanna Kok (39:56.108)
Okay, so what is happening is, as I mentioned, I was trained in the kinesiology, the allergy practitioner, and then the medical intuitive training. Now with the allergy practitioner, my training, we learn how to get people to be in harmony with their environment so that you stop being allergic to all sorts of things. And so it's not about avoiding. You can now eat what you want. The hay fever is gone, cat allergy is gone, you name it, they can be gone.

But it was a time consuming exercise. I had to see people in person every week and then work on them. And so it's time consuming and costly. Then with the theta healing, I learned another technique about getting rid of allergies and I combined them and started making these recordings. And...

At the time I was calling them Affirmations, which was also a cool name, but people were associating it too much with Affirmations and hard work, so I changed it to iThrives. But I made these recordings based on the combination of what I learned in the allergy stuff and the theta healing, and then every night what I suggest to people is that you play an audio set super softly. You can do it either when you're sleeping or you can play during the day.

You can play them audibly if you want to hear what I'm saying. So it's not like there's anything hidden there. And I gave them to people to listen to and then allergies would go away. And that's how I started developing the app. And then I started learning more about the menopause. And so I created, there's like, well, 12 plus different subjects that people can choose from.

a very affordable subscription. Yeah, so it's a very affordable subscription, but I have now making it as a gift for your people. Maybe one drink some water there.

Sally (42:08.046)
Excuse me, I'm having a moment.

Hanna Kok (42:11.289)
That's all right. So as a gift, but I'll tell you a funny story about coughing just now. As a gift I give people, that's good.

Sally (42:17.74)
I'm just going to mute myself. I'm going to mute myself so I can cough in the background. Yeah. You keep talking.

Hanna Kok (42:25.654)
Yes. Okay, so with the iThrive app, then people found that they got rid of their allergies and I started to expand to other subjects as well. And the whole idea is that you listen super softly while you sleep or while you go about your day. And the result can be instantaneously. Just one story was very funny. My husband had a friend visiting.

and he was coughing so badly that you thought, well, the lungs are gonna end up on the floor, you know, it was really bad. So, and you can run the iThrives on your phone, so I put it on. I said, do you mind if I play something for you softly in the background that can help you with your cough? Because he'd been coughing for months. So I put it on like two meters behind him, and I walked away because I was working in my office. Within 10, 15 minutes, he stopped coughing.

So I thought, okay, well, that's a good story. Let me go to him and I said to him, have you noticed you stopped coughing? says, yeah, yeah. I said, would you like to know how that was possible? No, not really. I thought, well, look at that. So I picked up my phone, picked up my phone, walked away back to my office. Five minutes later, he started coughing again, but not as bad as before, but still it came back. And so, yeah, so there's a wide range of subjects.

One of them that I put on for him was for the immune system for optimal health. And a whole program can take about 30 days. So each day or each night you have a different set that you play in the background. And so I have special ones for menopause and menopause and I've had fantastic results where the people have a lot less hot flushes, those mood swings just calm down. There's a whole lot of symptoms.

Sally (44:04.654)
Thank

Hanna Kok (44:25.826)
that just disappear when you play them super softly in the background. And I'm offering them for free. Yes, subliminal.

Sally (44:31.502)
So they're like subliminal. Wow. Okay.

Hanna Kok (44:38.592)
Yeah, so the people when they sign up, can, sorry, I'm interrupting you here.

Sally (44:42.062)
No, it's okay, go on, go on.

Hanna Kok (44:44.194)
Yeah, so what I've done now is that people can access them for free for 35 days without credit card because I know if I have get a free trial and I have to put my credit card details in, I don't do the trial because I know I free, then you forget. So they can just try it out and then experience it for themselves.

Sally (45:01.282)
Yeah. Okay. So subliminally, so how do they go in subliminally? Like what is going on there? Is it to do with what you were talking about before? Like we have, we're, we're in this pea soup of information and we're only conscious of like 2 % of it. Is that how it filters in?

Hanna Kok (45:22.946)
Absolutely, because while I'm sitting here I've got something super softly playing in the background for myself and as I said it's not only that you're conscious of 1%, you're conscious aware of a lot less than that 1 % but the subconscious is absorbing everything and then it starts to do its thing.

Sally (45:44.494)
Mmm.

Hanna Kok (45:50.208)
while you are listening subconsciously, it will absorb it. You know, many years ago, they had this experiment, and even in one of the James Bond movies, I think they had it, that they had a movie, and then, and in those days, the movies were all these little pictures, right? And then they would put one picture of a Coke ad in, just a Coke bottle. And then they found that the

Sally (45:50.508)
like it's magic.

Hanna Kok (46:19.074)
Coke sales increased a lot during the break. So that's why they were not allowed to do that anymore. But subconsciously, those people had picked up the message, Coke, I need a Coke. And that was just one picture in a whole movie.

Sally (46:23.96)
Really.

Sally (46:35.49)
Yes.

Makes you wonder, doesn't it, you know, with advertising when we are even, when we're watching advertising, what else is going on under the surface? It's like, I can't watch things like cookery programs after my dinner because it just makes me want to go and eat more. I'm like, no, I just can't. Yeah.

Hanna Kok (46:58.102)
I cannot eat them at... I cannot watch them at all.

Sally (47:03.274)
No, Okay, so yeah, there's lots and lots of stuff going on there really, is. Can you share a success story? One of your clients perhaps who has benefited from your method.

Hanna Kok (47:20.384)
Yes, so as I already mentioned the story of the lady that used the app to who was what she used to fall apart because you know at the end she had a period every three months and she would be an emotional wreck, total wreck and then she used the app and within a month actually she that disappeared then the

Other story, another thing that happens for a lot of women that they get very heavy bleeding towards the end of their cycle. And so especially this one lady, she was a grandmother, I had to look after the grandchildren, but she was bleeding so badly, like three weeks out of a month. And she then, I did coaching with her and we picked up.

There was a lot of resentment towards her husband and some other issues there. And the believing completely stopped.

Sally (48:21.539)
Wow.

Hanna Kok (48:22.954)
Yeah, and so she did not need a hysterectomy because that often happens for women that needs a hysterectomy because of the heavy bleeding.

Sally (48:31.692)
Yeah, and that's quite hard to believe, isn't it? Like when you think of all the medical interventions and all of the things, all of the conversations that are, know, all of the brick walls and the barriers that people experience in terms of their menopausal problems, like heavy bleeding, and they can't get the answers from doctors. And you're saying that there was a, that you were able to work with this person and really get a very, very quick.

result with her bleeding. What do you think was the mind-body, what was the mechanism that was going on underneath that that made that happen so quickly, especially for her?

Hanna Kok (49:12.576)
Well, if you think of it, you experienced how your muscles immediately responded to your thinking. That was instantaneously. When we have a stress response, our blood vessels will contract or widen, or depending on what is going on. So she had these grudges that had to do with...

Sally (49:15.068)
you

Hanna Kok (49:39.426)
her sexuality, the womb, that whole area. So as soon as we released that through forgiveness, because for me forgiveness is the road to your health and happiness. And so we did that work. Then immediately the muscle tension can change and the blood vessels can constrict that were open and that can be instantaneously.

Sally (50:06.188)
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Hanna Kok (50:08.642)
I'm not saying it's always instantaneously, sometimes you need more than one session, but it can be quick.

Sally (50:14.061)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and I think there's also so much that we don't know, as we said before, there's so much that just happens that we're not aware of the actual mechanical pathways and the biological pathways. know, the mind, body wisdom is just so incredible and we have to sort of let it work its magic. And the womb space is like...

very emotionally dynamic, I think.

Hanna Kok (50:47.23)
Absolutely. There are several books on the subject and of course now I cannot think of the authors but the one is called The Molecules of Emotion by Candice Pert. She's passed away and then there's another guy as well, his name will come back to me just now. But how they talk about on a cellular level, we have each cell

Sally (51:02.422)
Thank

Sally (51:08.491)
Okay.

Hanna Kok (51:15.518)
On the outside of the cell membrane we have receptors. And depending on what floats past and hooks onto that membrane, it will trigger a response in a cell. It's the whole principle of epigenetics. And Bruce Lipton, he's the father of epigenetics. And so when you have an emotion...

Sally (51:38.114)
Yeah.

Hanna Kok (51:41.952)
your body creates neuropeptides, they flow through the body, now certain tissue in a certain part of the body will have different receptor cells than others ones. And so if you're holding a grudge, in this case maybe it was because it was related to her husband, now the wound picked it up and then it responded to that. Just a simplified way of explaining it.

When we release the trauma, we release that hormone that was hooked on the cell membrane. Because while we're still traumatized, we don't release it. And so the cells have this stress response over and over again and it breaks the cells down, it shortens their lifespan. And when we release it through...

Sally (52:22.626)
Mm-hmm.

Hanna Kok (52:40.85)
know, forgiveness, true forgiveness, and also forgiving ourselves, then that releases and now the cell can have different responses. And it is quick.

Sally (52:53.068)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know what you mean. mean, our emotions do massively impact our cellular structure, the cell receptors. I know that GABA can't lock on to the GABA cells, which are really helped to down regulate the system.

They can't do their job if there's a lot of stress and tension. So the nervous system approach, the biological approach, it's all tied into trauma. Anytime we're experiencing something traumatic, the cells are changing. Anytime we release trauma and shift our perspective, the cells are changing. there are probably people out there studying the specifics.

a lot more like Bruce Lipton. totally into what he's doing, know, the genetics and the epigenetics, how the environment really shapes the gene and is able to turn the genetic coding on and off rather than we're just at the mercy of our genes. It's much more complex than that and it's behavioral and it's experiential as well. So, yeah.

Hanna Kok (54:11.648)
And to add to that, with the iThrive, what I've done, so normally if you look at affirmations and the ones that you get on the internet, they have put a lot of positive statements in, and that's fantastic. But where does the rubbish go that we've been telling ourselves? So in the iThrives, I have a lot of release statements, releasing emotions, releasing beliefs, et cetera. But we can't just...

Sally (54:12.654)
Come on.

Hanna Kok (54:38.658)
because we hold on to beliefs because they work for us. For example, if I believe I'm unworthy, how does it work for me? Well, it makes that if I think I'm unworthy, now I'll become extra kind and helpful and considerate, and now everybody loves me because I'm like that. if subconsciously I'm afraid that if I let go of the belief I'm unworthy,

I'm going to lose all the virtues that go with it. So if I pull it, it will just recreate it and it won't stay away. So with the iThrives, in there I have recordings like, I'll continue to be kind and helpful and supportive, even without the belief I'm unworthy. And so I retrain the subconscious like, okay, it's safe now to let go of that belief that I'm unworthy. And then I let go of the belief I'm unworthy.

and then it lasts. So the iThrives are like a therapy session. You can listen to them audibly or if you want to and you can hear everything like that.

Sally (55:36.694)
Mmm. Yeah.

Sally (55:47.628)
I love that. Really, really good. So where do people download the app?

Hanna Kok (55:54.678)
The best is to go just to my name, Hannah Cooke. I know English people, even if I tell them Hannah's without the H at the end, they still like to do it with the H at the end. So I've now got the two domains, Hannah and without the H at the end, and then Cooke is K-O-K. And for those of people that sniggle when they hear my name, it actually means Cooke, just in case they were wondering the whole time.

it means cook. yeah, so if you go to hannacock.com, then you'll get immediate access to the 35 day free trial. You can have full access, try them out, and then afterwards you can decide to sign up for a super affordable fee. And you'll get also that book that I talked to you about, The Psychic Roots of Disease. It's not a book you want to...

Sally (56:29.72)
Mm-hmm.

Hanna Kok (56:52.852)
necessarily read, but you can use it as a reference book. You know, like, these are my symptoms, what is this about? And it gives you great insight.

Sally (57:01.517)
Yeah.

That's great. And then do you do one-to-ones with people as well?

Hanna Kok (57:07.678)
Yes, yes I do. And then if they sign up they'll come onto my mailing list and then in the mailing list there will be an invitation to book a free session with me if they want to explore, if they want me to work with them.

Sally (57:23.286)
Yeah okay great and do you work via zoom or just in person?

Hanna Kok (57:29.342)
No, I live in South Africa in a little village, it's a bit hard, so I do all my consultations online.

Sally (57:37.462)
Okay, that's great, that's good to know. And then where are you most active on social media?

Hanna Kok (57:43.458)
I'm not great on social media but LinkedIn is where I'm most active because I find as soon as I... But I do have a lady posting for me on the different social media. But also if you want to connect with me, rather connect with me through LinkedIn because my experience with other ones, especially Facebook, as soon as you connect with somebody then they want to like, you're so beautiful, whatever, know.

So I don't connect with people that I don't have connect, you know, quite a few people in common. So the best is LinkedIn. And then if you're on my email list, you've got my email address, so you can reach out personally as well. You can book the consultation. That's the best.

Sally (58:28.32)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, perfect, I'll just get on your newsletter as well, that might be the best thing too. Yeah, I understand that about social media, it's definitely not for everyone and it's becoming quite a melting pot of, you know, not sure if you're able to trust this person, so yeah, I get it. Amazing, well thank you so much. Yeah, one final question, what message do you want to share with women who feel they've tried everything?

Hanna Kok (58:58.676)
If they haven't tried my app yet, go and try it.

I've had several women said, I've tried everything. I said, go and try it. And it worked for them. So, mm.

Sally (59:10.51)
Yeah, I love that. Yeah, yeah. think just that whole mindset as well, if I've tried everything, to me there's a little bit of a red flag there when I hear that as a therapist, of course. I'm like, have you really tried everything? What are you gaining from having that belief? What kind of ego set is that belief keeping you locked in, you know, and not flexible and not able to kind of...

Hanna Kok (59:34.955)
Hmm.

Sally (59:38.336)
change so yeah just just throwing that out there but anyway thank you so much go on go on

Hanna Kok (59:41.954)
I just have one more testimonial on the app side, not on the menopause side, but on the allergy side. I had a lady exactly said that. I've tried everything. She had been on heavy allergy medication for decades, like 30 years plus, was also on anti-anxiety medication. At that stage, the app was had only seven days free trial, but within those seven days she was off all medication.

Sally (01:00:12.322)
Wow, it really does sound amazing. yeah, I highly, if you've been inspired by Hannah, download her app. Thank you so much, Hannah.

Hanna Kok (01:00:13.804)
So.

Hanna Kok (01:00:25.42)
Thank you so much for this opportunity. I really appreciate it.

Sally (01:00:29.963)
you're very welcome.