183 The Menopause GAP with Anne-Marie McQueen

Join me and Anne-Marie McQueen in our conversation about how treating menopause can feel like being out in the Wild West. Anne-Marie McQueen, a journalist and founder of Hot Flash Inc, shares her phenomenal insights into what she’s learnt in her year’s interviewing many menopause specialists.

In  this conversation, we talk about:

🌱 Menopause Journalism - the road less travelled

🌱 Progesterone - why don’t we start with this first?

🌱 The Menopause Gap Explained

🌱 Going holistic with Menopause Management

🌱 Menopause as a truth bomb. 

🌱 Exploring 9D Breathwork: A Transformative Experience

🌱 The Awakening: Life After Loss and Embracing Change

🌱 Navigating Controversial Topics: Seed Oils and Health

🌱 The Challenge of Speaking Truth: Social Media Backlash

🌱 Building Intuition: Trusting Yourself in Midlife

🌱 Shifting Relationships: The Impact of Menopause

🌱 Midlife Reinvention: Embracing New Possibilities

So if you’re ready to be inspired and go deep, this episode is for you.

Anne-Marie’s Links:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hotflashinc

Website: https://www.hotflashinc.com/

Sally's Links:

[Free Guide] Healing The Trauma Underlying Your Menopause Symptom Severity:  https://www.sallygarozzo.com/healingtraumatheguide

[On Demand Masterclass 2 hours] How To Heal The Trauma Underlying Your Menopause Symptom Severity [£17] https://www.sallygarozzo.com/healingtrauma

[On Demand Workshop] Redefine Your Values at Menopause and Live Life in Alignment With Them [£27] https://www.sallygarozzo.com/redefine 

[Online Practitioners Diploma - Self Paced] Menopause Wellbeing Practitioner [£127] https://www.sallygarozzo.com/meno

[One to One] Transformational 30 Day Rewire (Includes RTT) [£447]: https://www.sallygarozzo.com/rapid-transformational-therapist

Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/sallygarozzomindmentor

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sallygarozzo/

Send me a voice clip via What’s App - https://wa.me/message/FTARBMO7CRLEL1

Transcript

Sally (00:01.336)
So my guest today is Anne-Marie McQueen. Anne-Marie is based in the United Arab Emirates. She's a phenomenal journalist and the founder of her own global digital media platform, Hot Flash Inc. Anne-Marie provides information and inspiration to a fast growing community of 50,000 plus people making their way through perimenopause, menopause and the midlife transition. And she does this across

her brilliant newsletter, her podcast, social media, and events both in real life and online. She's a former founding editor of health and wellness platform, Live Healthy, former features editor at the national and a former national columnist for Sun media in Canada. So Anne-Marie McQueen, huge welcome to the podcast today. How are you?

Ann Marie McQueen (00:52.496)
Thank you. I'm doing good. I'm Amanda, think. I think I had COVID.

Sally (01:01.12)
Yeah, yeah okay so yeah huh what did you say?

Ann Marie McQueen (01:05.152)
Small C. Yeah. I said the small C. You know, I forgot how people sort of treat you when you have COVID.

Sally (01:14.254)
Yeah, run a mile kind of thing. You have such a cool name. When I was thinking Anne-Marie McQueen, I love the name McQueen. It's like obviously giving me vibes of Alexander McQueen, but I just love it. It's very rock star. Okay, so I don't have many journalists on the podcast and I don't think there are that many menopause specific journalists, although I think it might now be growing.

Ann Marie McQueen (01:20.8)
Thank you.

Ann Marie McQueen (01:28.736)
Trump X.

Sally (01:40.462)
But I was very excited when you agreed to come on and talk with me because I love your sort of deep questioning around it and how you kind of synthesize so many other subjects into menopause too. And it's not, you know, it's not just an estrogen deficiency as we know, and you synthesize all of that into it. But before we get into all of that, how did you end up?

being a menopause journalist, would you say? And how was Hot Flash Inc. born?

Ann Marie McQueen (02:13.086)
Well, I mean, I've been a journalist for 30 years. I became obsessed with storytelling and yeah, just telling stories, gathering information, finding out. I'm just like an insanely curious person. And so I was just trundling along on my career. spent a lot of time in Canada. came over to the Middle East. That's where I became an editor.

So I really enjoyed being like an arts and life and features editor and just like pulling together a bunch of information. I've always, I studied broadcasting. always been interested in like digital and tech and kept ahead of the curve. And then I had a, you know, ridiculously hard perimenopause without knowing I was in perimenopause. And then when the penny sort of dropped on that, I felt silly because I definitely should have known. But if I, I didn't know, how would anyone else know?

And I immediately put a Google alert because that's what I always did when I wanted to learn about things and I just didn't like what was coming back. I was very fear mongering and doom and gloom. No celebrities were talking about it, which drove me nuts because they were starting to put celebrities on the cover of fitness magazines and they would talk about their fitness regimes, but nothing like there just be nothing about and I'm like, it's this big elephant in the room, right? Like they're 47, they're 53. Like you can't, you're not asking them about this. And

When I realized I was in period mental repos, I think 47, I put that Google alert. I didn't like what was coming back. And I was like, I just feel like this is such a crazy time emotionally and physically. And I'd already heard about what a transition it was spiritually and on a soul level. And I was like, I just feel like you could make this your beat. And I love having a beat because you become an expert in a way.

And I'd done that before, like covering City Hall. You you just become so obsessed with the topic. And so I didn't know how to do it, but I just did a newsletter and it was really clunky and cumbersome then. And I launched it and I still am the only person doing it in the way that I'm doing it, right? Like there's a lot of journalists that are, I would call, I'm just writing about this today, the problem with menopause journalism. And I realized that I, having designated myself menopause might be, I could be like the problem.

Ann Marie McQueen (04:29.13)
But one of the big problems is that women were writing about menopause, they've, they're kind of like cheerleaders, you know, like they're not, they've, it's very difficult to be objective about things when you've taken hormone therapy and it's changed your life. You're not really going to cover it in that way. So that's a very long explanation for you of how I got into it. And then I just, I since learned, I haven't been diagnosed, but I probably have ADHD because I just clock all the things.

Sally (04:49.198)
Mmm.

Ann Marie McQueen (04:57.16)
And selective hyper focus is one of the things that I've had. So I just, I'm not tired of it yet.

Sally (05:03.958)
Yeah, okay. So now are you going down that route as well with the neurodiversity and how the two start to link?

Ann Marie McQueen (05:13.556)
Yeah, because, and it's so interesting, right? Because I've always been the kind of person who would scoff at that kind of a thing and any label. even in period menopause, sort of bristle when people are blaming it on everything and sort of owning it as like an identity. It's just a really powerful transition. And so I didn't, I had a friend for years saying, I think you have ADHD. She was diagnosed when she was a kid. And I'm like, no, I don't. Like I don't, there's no way.

And then when you started hearing more and more and more about it, I don't want to have, I don't want to have any sort of excuse. I just want to understand myself. And it really learning about it is really helping me understand myself. And I think with the diagnosis, it would just give me like that actual confirmation. I know it seems weird that so many of us would have it, right? Like it's, and then when I tell people, think the reactions are just so crazy because people were like, everyone has it.

Sally (06:01.761)
Yeah.

Ann Marie McQueen (06:08.114)
or people are just so dismissive when you, you have to be really careful who you talk about it with because it's a deep, you know, painful thing for me. I think it's a hyperactivity of the mind that you've been hiding and suffering from quite a bit at different times. And so, yeah, I'm saying it now, but I think I'll be a lot more comfortable talking about it if I get a diagnosis. And if I don't, I'll be really embarrassed.

Sally (06:35.542)
your transparency. Yeah, that's cool. And I love what you said about how when you have a beat, you can get quite obsessed with it. And I think there is actually quite a lot to get obsessed with in the menopause space, because it's so all encompassing. It's not just about hormones. And I'm sure we're to get into that.

What I'd love to chat to you about is your podcast, right? was having a little flick through and you've had the most incredible guests on your podcast from, you know, scientists and endocrinologists and naturopathic doctors as well. What has been the most paradigm shifting thing that you think you've learnt from one of your guests on the podcast or, you know, what's been your favourite episode or anything like that really?

Ann Marie McQueen (07:29.536)
Gosh, that's a hard one. But I guess I would say how blown away I am by how much of the world doesn't pay any attention to progesterone and how blindly focused on estrogen they are and how much the integrative

Sally (07:46.338)
Yes.

Ann Marie McQueen (07:57.16)
naturopathic world is focused on that and doing such a good job. And then once I noticed that there's just a huge ripple effect because like I, you know, first I first I had to learn about that. And I learned it probably early on from a Dr. Christiane Northrup, who's been canceled. She was canceled in COVID and she was Oprah's menopause doctor and she was awesome. And I always wanted to talk to her and I'm so happy to have her on the podcast.

And she was one that was talking about it. then from other people, they learned about it. But then you just start going, well, OK, so why is everyone quoting estrogen only studies? Because why would you only give women estrogen? And why is all this research that says hormone therapy doesn't prevent cardiovascular disease, lumping in synthetic progesterone with bioidentical progesterone? It's just a string that just doesn't end.

It's just so interesting to me. I've had people who are experts say, yeah, and I'm learning a lot more about progesterone. I mean, I've seen one of the top menopause doctors in Britain, maybe just a year ago saying, I'm really learning about progesterone. I'm like, my gosh, like how now are you learning about? But it's very much a divide between the mainstream medicine approach and the functional more forward thinking.

Sally (09:19.414)
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting that you call it the more forward thinking approach as well, because that's been my experience, unfortunately, of, you know, going my own way and seeking out private healthcare practitioners, you know, like functional medicine practitioners and having a Dutch test and going, wow, okay, what, what, why? And almost like being so angry that this kind of thing wasn't picked up, you know, before by a mainstream doctor and then...

Just this whole swirl of emotions when you come to realize how invisible women's healthcare needs actually are in the mainstream, you know. And yeah, think, you know, Christiana Northrup, she's been talking about this stuff for years. And when I first got into discovering and uncovering menopause, the world of menopause, hers was a book.

an initial book that I picked up as well on the power of pleasure and nitric oxide and how it sort of opens the blood vessels, you know, yeah.

Ann Marie McQueen (10:19.082)
So, so far ahead. And it's from her that even though I was in perimenopause, I didn't know I was in perimenopause, I think I heard something about menopause. And I remembered there was a chapter in women's bodies, women's wisdom, that big brick of a book. And I read it and she was explaining what happens in the FSH levels, LH levels rise. And then eventually you're at a stage where you are on that like amazing day of your cycle where you can take on the world.

She said, this is your peak here. How do you feel here? And here's where those and I was like, okay, well, I can deal with this. I mean, if I don't have to have those monthly, you know, so it's I'm so sad that she's not part of the conversation and you know, whatever you think of what she did in her retirement, I just it's like a really heartbreaking because I'd like to talk to her again. And I really can't, you know, like I just people will just think I'm crazy. She's one of those people now, rightly or wrongly, but she was so far ahead and put she put it all together.

And all this time later, so few people are doing that. And we still live in a place where there's fighting and scoffing from one side saying, why would you do a Dutch test? It's a waste of money. Expensive testing is a waste of money. You can't test for perimenopause with a Dutch test. It's like, no, that's not what we're testing for. That's not what we're looking for. And so something I'm really interested, not the US, but just before I forget that the

Sally (11:36.686)
Mm.

Ann Marie McQueen (11:45.086)
The new thing that I think that has been maligned and ignored is how you detox your estrogen and what role that plays in your health. And I really do believe learning more about that will be something that we hear about and we're going to be testing for our methods of detoxification. And we're going to the future of sort of like personalized medicine, that's going to be something that we'll look back on and we'll be like, and then I suspect mainstream will be like really slow to pick it up.

because you don't know about it at all.

Sally (12:15.434)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, the way we, you know, those estrogen detox pathways, because as you mentioned before, you know, about progesterone and the importance of progesterone, we can become very estrogen dominant. And that tends to be the problem. As we go into peri, it certainly was for me. And I know the first few months,

well the first few weeks actually that I tried HRT I was so puffy, I was so swollen, my boobs were like really really sore and then it was about three months in after taking the progesterone as well cyclically and I just thought to myself because I knew about the progesterone that's estrogen dominance before and it was scratching my head thinking why wasn't I prescribed progesterone first?

Ann Marie McQueen (13:06.048)
Yes.

Sally (13:07.148)
You know, and I think that's becoming more of a mainstream vibe now, isn't it? Slowly, slowly.

Ann Marie McQueen (13:13.344)
slowly because if you think estrogen is the main thing, which a lot of people still do then, because I kind of call it the low and slow approach to hormone therapy. Like I know there's these people prescribing physiologic levels and I don't know very much about that. I'm going to be looking into it. But I mean, ideally you're not torquing up your levels of hormone therapy if you don't need to at this stage with what we know. Why not? Why not go on progesterone first?

Why not see how you do and then you know how you do on it. And then when you layer in estrogen, you know how you do on that. That just seems like you do that with any other sort of, you know, that's how that's what they do with cannabis, advise with cannabis. You know, there was a man who spoke at the menopause conference who's a couple of years ago who suggested low and slow approach when you're talking about it in terms of formal therapy, when you're talking about it in terms of pain management. So.

Yeah, I don't really understand. I do all these things. Did you stay on hormone therapy?

Sally (14:14.752)
I've had a very on and off journey with it. Kind of like, yeah, this is amazing. my God, I'm really puffy and swollen. Like when I start getting really puffy and when my breasts start hurting, I come off it for a bit. I kind of play with it. And I know you're probably not supposed to, but I have such a good relationship with my body that I feel I can do that. And sometimes I do take progesterone on its own. So I'll get slapped by all the mainstream doctors and don't do as I.

Don't do as I do, like really listen to yourself and you know get all the right advice and everything but yeah, yeah.

Ann Marie McQueen (14:50.816)
Yeah, if you're really suffering, like Vikram Talalakar, who I really like, he's an OB-GYN in the UK, it was his own clinic. He's on my expert panel, because I was very impressed with his like very gentle, curious approach to hormone therapy. He said you really have to give it four months, but I experimented with taking some progesterone recently. I don't really need it. I was just sort of seeing how I did and I didn't go well at all. I was intensely bloated, very blue. The sleep was great.

Sally (15:02.797)
Yeah.

Ann Marie McQueen (15:21.066)
But it was two weeks and I'm like, I can't do this anymore, you know? And my best friend said, aren't you gonna try estrogen? Because you're writing about this, you need to try it. And I'm like, I don't know. I've had experiences with that before when I was younger and it didn't go well either. And I just, you know, you're the one who knows, hopefully, because I also don't take my own advice. I tell people, keep a journal when you take something new. Well, that was two weeks of me going, why am I so bloated again?

Why am I so blue? What's wrong? Until I was standing in my kitchen looking at the bottle going, you know, so, you know, right? I don't know. I didn't want to go another two. I didn't want to go one more day feeling like that. So I think, and that just shows how variable it is for women, right? Like it's just so, some people just swear by it. Like they just love it.

Sally (16:02.253)
Yeah.

Sally (16:11.276)
Yeah, yeah. Why were you blue? And where were you blue, by the way? I'm intrigued. Okay.

Ann Marie McQueen (16:15.732)
No, I mean blue, like blue mood. yeah. No, it's not a side effect of progesterone that you turn blue. That's, that would be misinformation. my gosh. That's great though. It's funny because over there I do have this methylene blue, it's supposed to be for your mitochondria. So I was like, was it blue? No. And if I get a drop of that on anything, it's game over. But no, no, was, I was low mood.

Sally (16:25.742)
I totally misinterpreted that.

Sally (16:46.114)
Yeah, okay, okay, low mood, yeah, gotcha.

Ann Marie McQueen (16:48.468)
Yeah, it was not. And so I'm one of those really sensitive people to hormones. Like I just am. So and I've had that estrogen dominance through my perimenopause. Looking back, you can sort of see the phases and see what was happening. there was like my last few years, was so estrogen was high. had to be because I was dating like crazy. I was dating and I would drive to Dubai for a date. I was dating different people.

I'm just looking back now, like, I don't have the energy for that. And my breasts were super, super, super sore. And, you know, there's two schools of thought on sore breasts. It can be, some can be progesterone, some can be estrogen. Like estrogen is sort of full on. And Dr. Jerrilyn Pryor, who's an endocrinologist, who's a very well-informed progesterone, the sides are excess progesterone. But I mean, when your breasts are sore, it doesn't, you can't even tell as it front is, it's clearly.

I was 50, you know, and it's funny because I was just on a panel with a doctor, like a breast health doctor. And I said, we were talking about breast pain and I said, do why do your breasts get sore? And it was a bit cheeky of me because I wanted to see what she said. And she said, we don't know. And I was like, like, we totally know. We totally know why your breasts get sore. I don't know what, how could we not? Of course we know.

Sally (18:06.53)
Bye.

Ann Marie McQueen (18:17.748)
So that just shows you that in the mainstream medicine, they don't even really, and I've seen doctors on social media when people say, I'm taking progesterone, estrogen, my breasts are really sore and I just can't, and they've said like, take a higher dose. And it's like, my goodness, you know? So I think it's funny because you think the information is getting out there, but there's so many different layers and sore breasts are really concerning, right? Like when you had that, you just feel like something's quite wrong.

Sally (18:18.093)
Yeah.

Sally (18:45.112)
Yeah, what surprised, what surprises me is just the level of differing, you know, differing opinions, differing thoughts, differing feelings. And it all depends on where you look and it all depends on the filter that someone has, you know, the paradigm with which they are coming from. I bet as a journalist, you will have, you obviously understand bias, but I think

media and social media that we have now, everyone has their own agenda. And so everyone's pushing something or coming from their slant, you know, even myself with the, the idea of trauma complex PTSD sort of underlying a lot of the symptomology that we see in menopause, you know, I come to it from that slant, whereas other more, I don't know, just mainstream medical doctors will just come through it from that reductive, it's an estrogen deficiency.

kind of slants. But what I- No.

Ann Marie McQueen (19:43.848)
It doesn't make any sense though, Sally. Like it doesn't. I'm so glad you're out there doing that. Because if it was just hormones, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but if it was just hormones, we'd all be the same. With maybe some slight variation for where we live and what we eat and what our stress is or socioeconomic status, but it's not like that. And I had a terribly hard time and I know why. Because I had the same sort of...

Sally (19:54.552)
Yeah.

Sally (20:02.999)
Yeah.

Ann Marie McQueen (20:10.248)
adverse childhood experiences, inability to process my emotions, like overworking, over-functioning, all the things now that I'm learning, I'm learning about all of them, right? And you hit a wall because you can't stuff that stuff down for too long. And we know we have the data that it, you know, that it confuses things. So I don't want to see a doctor who doesn't understand that ever again. And I'm not interested in talking to people who don't understand.

Sally (20:19.575)
Yeah.

Sally (20:25.934)
No.

Yeah.

Sally (20:34.113)
Yeah.

Ann Marie McQueen (20:38.772)
I'm really not like, like one thing I seek out and probably to my detriment. Cause when you have those big doctors on there, they're either your top podcasts. And I like to talk to almost everyone, but not, not one note. at least. Yeah. More one note.

Sally (20:38.958)
Mm.

Sally (20:52.232)
One note Nellies. Love it. Yeah, okay, okay. That's really cleared up some stuff for me. You refer to something called the menopause gap. I wonder if you could explain a little bit more about what the menopause gap is, because it's not something that I'm hugely aware of, and how it impacts women and what we can actually do about it.

Ann Marie McQueen (21:21.792)
So it's a little bit more about what we've been speaking to. Literally, how you proceed will depend on your own belief system and what you know and how informed you are. Most women are busy doing many other things other than obsessing about this stuff. But if you walk into a doctor who believes that the issues created in perimenopause and menopause are due

to the recession and fluctuation of hormones, then you'll go down one path. And if you walk into the many, many, many, many, many other people who believe that the problems are caused, the recession and fluctuation of hormones reveal the problem.

Sally (22:10.606)
okay. That's interesting.

Ann Marie McQueen (22:12.682)
So one is saying that it's the problem and one saying that when those hormones leave, those hormones leave and ride and that's your problem. And that's a very simplistic explanation. And you've seen people grow very big on social media and become big celebrities with that explanation because that's a great message and you don't have to get too complicated and you can do it in three minutes. most of the intelligent view of it is that

Those hormones protected us and when they recede, it reveals what needs to be addressed. And I feel like that's the big gap because, you know, if you're, you know, whose office you end up in is where you end up, is what road you end up going down. And if you have that trauma or if you have a thyroid issue that's presenting very much like perimenopause or many, many, many, many other things.

The hormones are to cause for everything, the cause for everything are, it's just, it's not going to serve you ultimately.

Sally (23:21.91)
No, you're not going to get the fix that you want or you're not going to get the improvement and the recovery that you want because it's not as simple as that, it's all interlinked.

Ann Marie McQueen (23:33.31)
Yeah, and you know, as someone who's

had to do a lot of work. I've had to do a lot of things and women don't have the time that I have. I mean, I'm a busy person, but I don't have children. And so the burden on women is insane. But I struggled and struggled and struggled physically and emotionally until I got the right doctor, I got the right care. And I started doing things to move this trauma and this way of dealing with the things in life that are hard and

my own thoughts about it. That's when things, the needle really shifted. And as I passed through menopause, I did a lot of that and I like cried my eyes out and I moved things through my body and I feel, not right now because I feel sick, but I feel it's such a tremendous difference. I just, I just, I think we come, I think we come here to sort out this stuff, you know, to be the, the, the us that we can always.

that we were always meant to be, there are real true selves. And I think that your best shot of doing that is to view this more as like not an opportunity, but more a situation where you can clean up this stuff that needs to be cleaned up. In addition, doesn't mean hormone therapy won't help you. Doesn't mean you don't want to optimize your hormones for many reasons. There's many, many gaps though, like so many gaps, but like, mean, you know, there's gaps in like, no one wants to take care of us. Like OB-GYNs or...

Sally (24:59.265)
I love that.

Ann Marie McQueen (25:06.996)
throwing us to GPs and know, there's like gaps like that. But that's the biggest one is the way it seems.

Sally (25:15.022)
Yeah, the way menopause is seen by the sort of centralised medicine.

Ann Marie McQueen (25:21.332)
Yeah, and if you look at it as revealing, then a lot of things make sense through that paradigm, like some of the blood pressure issues that are revealed and the metabolic issues that are revealed. And all of those things can be addressed with hormone therapy or without usually. So that just makes a lot more sense, but it's more of a nuanced complex thing. And we know that the world isn't very much.

into that.

Sally (25:50.892)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So what did you do? What things have you done? What practices have you done to really help you address this sort of holistic stuff that was coming up at this time? The trauma wounds and the, yeah, all the dysregulation. Do you have any favourite practices? Tell us about them.

Ann Marie McQueen (26:18.228)
Yeah. Well, so my particular issue and I, you know, I had IBS for years from around 30 after I lost my mom and started journalism career. And, know, I now realize that in addition to childhood stuff that probably we all have as children at the time that we were, I had some, I had some trauma from my journalism career, you know, like I don't, you know, I know the smell of a dead body and I've seen a bloody murder scene and I've seen someone pulled out of the river. Like I've

I've been to some really horrible situations and I'm a really sensitive person and I used to drink a lot of alcohol. So that was also in there, right? And so when my health blew up, I tried many, many things. In my 40s, I tried so many things and I have so many tools, but the big things were finding the right doctor who was a GP and a homeopathy double major from Norway.

She also has a gut health specialty and counseling. So finding her, having someone that spent an hour with me, asked me about everything in my life, saw the totality of it and said, you've been through a lot and you have low thyroid Hashimoto's, leaky gut, pre-diabetes, fatty liver, and we're gonna help you and you're gonna be better in three months. It took six months. That was like the main, just finding her. And I just sort of think that came to me through the universe because I had seen many people.

And I probably, I was going to try hormone therapy and I'm just glad I didn't in that regard because she was able, she doesn't believe in hormone therapy. And I always joke that I have to go behind her back to give it a whirl. But aside from that piece, I really major breakthroughs. You know, I did therapy, I did talk therapy and I just did four months of therapy because I lost my father and it revealed some family stuff. was four months targeted really. I just basically hired someone for support and it was great.

but nothing helped me more than breath work and somatic body work. So tremor and release exercises. And I took the workout, which is course, which was a month of just these like microscopic hip movement relaxation. I cried more during that time than I ever have. My homeopathic doctor gave me...

Ann Marie McQueen (28:38.44)
a remedy that she said would release something from my miasma and I still have to have her on my podcast. She's so busy and ask her what the heck that meant because it floored me. Absolutely floored me. I... Okay, what else? In Perimenopause, one of the most helpful tools of all and I still use it is something called the Brainwave app. It was $5.99. It was literally one of the first apps I bought.

It's now 799. Brainwave app, it's very simple. I think it's like brainwave app 35. That is just something using binaural beats you can entrain your brain. So when you feel rage, it has anger reduction. When you can't sleep, when you're at work and you can't concentrate, you can put like these, you know, focus brainwaves. I have woken up rageful and I'll put it on and by the time I'm at work, I'm just, I'm calmer. Like...

That is like one of my number one, like number, number, number one tips. And anytime I mentioned it and someone just wrote to me and said, I thought it was woo woo. And then I tried it and it was like, it's a miracle. And I'm like, I know it's a, it's a 799.

Sally (29:52.942)
Brilliant. Yeah, I'm big into that. mean, anything to do with brainwave, entrainment, it's so soothing. I've got tuning forks as well, like the live sound of the tuning fork. I've got all the different, I'm such a sucker, I'll collect anything like that. Weighted ones, unweighted ones, ones you can put on your body. You know, if you're feeling really activated, like in your solar plexus, you can put this one on your solar plexus and it just calms everything down. But even just listening to a live tuning fork.

Ann Marie McQueen (29:59.294)
Cool.

Sally (30:22.082)
will slow because your brain waves entrain themselves, they match, mirror the coherent sound of the tuning fork.

Ann Marie McQueen (30:29.92)
science, like it really is. And they have studied it. And there's a reason they use music in operating theaters. you know, entrainment is like when you see a flock of birds and they're all flying together, you're just taking your chaotic brain waves and matching them to a more calming frequency. That's it. So simple. It's it's not a crutch or a tool like, you know, it's just a really wonderful. It's just a wonderful thing for women appearing menopause.

There was a, we had the GCC Menopause Summit here and there was this really cool Dr. Sarah Scaffoo spoke and she said something I'll never forget. She said, I have patients who start out at the top of the stairs in a good mood and end up in a bad mood at the bottom. And I was like, yeah, that can happen. Where you're just like, I was just washing the dishes and I was fine. And now I'm like, know, so that's one of my, my really my top tools and something else, you know, I had all my life.

Sally (31:16.579)
Yeah.

Ann Marie McQueen (31:24.914)
I had intrusive thoughts. And now I'm remembering that I even had them as a little girl. Like now I remember driving with my mom and saying, slow down, please slow down. Because obviously I had a thought that we were going to crash. That's an intrusive thought. I never knew what to call them. And they got crazy in my early period menopause, like just terrifying. And they would just hit me with like a sheet of fear. I'm just, you know, there's a dragon in front of me and

I had such a hard time and I didn't understand what was going on. And I found Cheryl Paul and she wrote a book called The Wisdom of Anxiety and she has a website called Conscious Transitions. And the most effective thing she said, like this might be about me thinking, okay, I'm dying. My house is burning down. Something happened to my family. When she, you know, all this stuff was obviously hormonal and you know, the progesterone's receding, but her

questions like, you know, when you having these thoughts, like how are you not taking care of yourself? What is this trying to tell you? Just looking at anxiety as a sort of a messenger, health anxiety, anxiety, baby relationships. She talked a lot about, you know, you want to check. I remember at one point I wanted to say to my dad and brother, when I text you, please text me right back because you have no idea. Because I'm texting them because I had an intrusive thought that something happened to them.

And when they don't text me back because they're two dudes, you know, it might be a day, right? And then I'm just like, but then I remember thinking it's not their responsibility to do that. And this isn't real. You know, it feels real, but it's not real. So she really helped me. And with health anxiety, which is no wonder it's a problem for all of us in perinatal palsy, right? Like you're just, you don't know what's going on. And so just, she said it will become apparent. It will become apparent.

Sally (32:57.07)
you

Ann Marie McQueen (33:20.712)
If something is really wrong, it will become apparent. And so that's when I sort of started being like, okay, if I still have this in five days, if I still have this weird thing in my skin that I think is melanoma in five days, we'll go to the doctor. I'm gonna survive till then, you know? And it's usually forgotten all about it.

Sally (33:35.822)
So she gave you some tools to just sit with that uncomfortable feeling and to kind of ride it out and then act on it if need be. Because you're right, I definitely have had experienced intrusive thoughts during menopause. just the scale of them that come up in the middle of the night, or just you could be washing the dishes and then boom, you're, God, you're really freaking out.

Ann Marie McQueen (33:37.824)
Super.

Sally (34:01.39)
And it is some stuff that's coming up to the surface, as you say, like it's revealed. Like the shit that you haven't dealt with tends to get revealed at perimenopause. And it's an invitation, isn't it, to dig deeper, look deeper, and figure out what's going on for you. And I have actually found it very, very illuminating.

for me, I don't know if you have that experience as well. And even though it's been super challenging at times, I wouldn't change it because I've learned so much about myself and I feel much more in charge of my life now. I feel more authentic, I feel more autonomous, I feel like I've dealt with a lot of historical baggage. I'm now coming around to...

loving my parents more unconditionally which I never thought would happen but it's it's happening you know coming around and and feeling good about the fact I don't have children like yourself you know yeah it's a big one it's a big one so thank you for sharing all of that and there's something that you do called 9d breath work isn't there yeah what is that what's what's the 9d

Ann Marie McQueen (35:06.464)
That's a big one.

Ann Marie McQueen (35:15.946)
That's the breath work. Yeah. I started doing it. This fellow Arsalan in Dubai started doing it and I don't know how I think I saw him talking about it on Instagram and I was running a health and wellness website. So I was just always looking for cool stuff that was happening here. And I like this guy a lot. He's really cool. He's really cool. He's like a high performance coach. And so I went to try one and it was

Unbelievable. It's a new form of like breathwork on steroids. So you have these headphones, it's binaural beats, it's some hypnosis. This guy that invented it during COVID, he just got all these great sound engineers and he does these journeys. And then now he's spreading it around the world with, you because I get his free ones and he's always trying to get you to become a practitioner, which I would like to do when I have time. And I just had some of the most

You know, you do the scream, you do the breathing, your hands all sort of, you get this thing called tetany that your hands like curl out. I get these weird like nerdy feelings in my face. I've cried my eyes out. You scream, I just...

It's moved things through me. I guess I started that in the end of 2023, around the time that I was doing the bodywork and I just, I started it then and I was, I've just done it sort of semi-regularly through, not all the time, like every couple of weeks maybe, and then with gaps. I cannot say enough about it. And I don't think you need to do 9D breath work. Like there's another app that I have, Revelation Breathwork, it's the same sort of thing. Just breath work is...

I don't know, do you do it? Like, have you done it?

Sally (37:03.906)
Yeah, yeah, definitely I find it transformational. I do some of the Wim Hof stuff at the end of the day. I'll go and do some panting and breath holding. And when I hold my breath, I get this intense feeling of the parasympathetic, the vagal, the vagus nerve being stimulated and just instantly coming down into that parasympathetic state. It's incredibly freeing and liberating. I've also had done some breath work classes where with the music playing and, know,

Ann Marie McQueen (37:06.58)
Yeah. Yep.

Sally (37:34.346)
getting rid of all the stuff but also actually feeling expanded. I've had some of those incredible expanded states of awareness and consciousness and just feeling so lucky and full of life force and yeah.

Ann Marie McQueen (37:47.082)
Yeah, and that you're connected with something larger, right? Like you, this has really helped me feel that way. And then once, there's another thing about going through menopause for me is like, I've just had an awakening where, you know, I lost my father almost a year ago and I'm more certain of ever that we come from somewhere and we go back there. Like, I just feel so certain about it. And I used to think people like me were really annoying. It's like, don't you just know everything? It doesn't matter. I'm not telling anyone. I just, my own self.

I used to be terrified of dying or whatever. Now I'm like, okay, well, it's just like, I didn't remember before I arrived. I'm just going back there. I think it's gonna be fine. Like I don't wanna live for a long time. Don't get me wrong. But that's a huge thing. And I did a of Wim Hof. I did a Wim Hof workshop right before COVID in 2020. And so I did a lot of morning Wim Hof breath work. I had quite a lot of morning dread.

Even into like my later stages of perimenopause, I had really bad morning dread in my late 40s where you just, you know, you open your eyes and it's fine. And then like, dun, dun, dun. I don't know how else to explain it. And I found that Wim Hof and then putting my face in ice water were two morning things that I did to deal with morning dread. They just really, the ice water just snaps you out of it you can't help but do like the Wim Hof 11 minutes that's on YouTube.

And that's going to shift you. And you know, I off, I was in Dubai last week and I went there for something else. I went to do a couple of podcasts for this festival that he was at and I went and asked him and I took a video of it and I was so excited and I put it on Instagram and no one liked it. No one likes anyone asking a man anything about perimenopause. Like it's just not tolerated and I'm always like

Yeah, but he's Wim Hof, like, you know what I mean? Like he's, and then everyone was talking about like, you know, he's having some legal problems and I was like, just wish I didn't bother. I was so excited to ask.

Sally (39:56.246)
Yeah, I hear you on that one. There's some frosty responses. I actually looked at some of your comments on seed oils and there was a few... Yeah, was it today that happened?

Ann Marie McQueen (40:05.46)
Okay, you saw that today. my God. Yeah. That was this morning, yeah, that I woke up to those. I know it's so crazy because you're just like, okay, I'm gonna put this quote. I put it in my newsletter because I always thought about it. It's a little bit old because we did a menopause summit with this Dr. Kate Chanahan who's written the book. I think it's called Dark Oils and she's a leading thinker on it. And then just woke up.

to getting ripped, like just ripped apart. And it's very hard to argue with because this is one of those situations where our shared reality is dissolving. if you are, the evidence shows, I get it. Like the evidence shows this is dangerous. You're talking nonsense, but the evidence,

Sally (40:45.708)
Yeah. I see. Yeah.

Ann Marie McQueen (41:00.298)
from like the interconnectedness between industry and the economization and the, you have to be able to see that. And I'm going to bungle the explanation of it. There's a journalist, James Lee, who does a really good job of explaining how industry, economy and the seed oils work together. And if you don't see that, then everything's fine. And you're crazy if you talk about anything to do with seed oils being bad for you. Am I making any sense?

Sally (41:26.862)
Yes, you are, yeah, yeah, definitely. isn't it like that with... No, but isn't it like that with everything, right?

Ann Marie McQueen (41:29.0)
It's not my area of expertise.

Ann Marie McQueen (41:34.292)
Well, I feel this issue is one of the ones that's like absolutely bonkers. It's sort of like COVID in a way, right? Like it's like you look at it one way the other, there's no, and it's like, well, couldn't it just be, you know, cause I, for one, when my gut was not good, I could not tolerate anything with any oil. I had to be so careful. And yes, I'm sure there's people who can just eat those things all day long. But you know, when you look at how they're made, it's really...

I find it very weird that you would be a nutrition professional in 2025 and be rushing to defend a highly processed food. It's very odd.

Sally (42:11.864)
Well, you know, when you think about it logically as well, when you think about the way that we were years and years and years ago, like how humans are designed to eat, we're to forage, we're designed to pick, hunt, dig. We're not designed to pick lots and lots of rapes seeds and tiny little things and then crush them and distill them and express them. You know, that's industry. And so anything that's, go on.

Ann Marie McQueen (42:39.008)
bleach them, you know, I mean, like the process of how you make those, it's gross. And anyway, I didn't mean to interrupt you. It's just a completely different, yeah, yeah. If I was making cold pressed rapeseed oil and I lived in Norway, like fine, it's like, that's no problem. It's not that, you know, maybe it's the name of them. I don't know what, but today I did feel like, why am I bothering? I just thought I'd put up an interesting piece of content and people can say, hey,

this is interesting, I'll learn more or they can just keep going. Like it's not someone said it was dangerous. And I'm like, I do not understand how it would be dangerous to share a quote from an expert on something because it's dangerous because you don't like it. Like how can how is that dangerous? I must be missing something.

Sally (43:22.646)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel your frustration and I feel exactly the same way, you when I'm talking about complex trauma, underlying menopause, symptoms, severity, and then get a whole load of people unfollowing me. I feel that. I feel that frustration. Yeah, definitely. Because you're... I'm about to put another post out actually about the myth of the happy childhood, which is going to piss a lot of people off. But I'm going to do it anyway because I have to remain true to my values.

Ann Marie McQueen (43:35.904)
Thank you.

Ann Marie McQueen (43:50.346)
You absolutely do. gosh, you second guess yourself. And like today was it, I was feeling well and I'm not, I don't want anyone to feel like sorry for me or whatever. It's just like, man, like.

Can't you just move on? I don't like when people just like fly in to attack you. Like, it's like, are you, you just waiting for a hashtag and then you just come? that's, but I think with what you're talking about, it's really destabilizing for a lot of people. And when I started looking at this, we, you know, I was like, no, no, my family was great. Like I grew up in a nice house and it's so, such a journey from that to what actually happened in a lot of people's houses. Very few.

Sally (44:28.749)
Yeah.

Sally (44:33.41)
Yeah.

Ann Marie McQueen (44:33.788)
I always say you didn't have to be chained to a radiator. That's not politically correct. But you know, it didn't have to be what you think. It just mattered that you how you felt when you were little, right? Like, you know a lot more about this than me, but I get those strong reactions. The ones that are just like you're arguing with a wall and people are just rabid. This happens with hormone therapy, too. Like I saw a doctor put a post up that was talking about this side effects from hormone therapy and someone told her it was irresponsible.

Sally (44:41.208)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Sally (45:02.35)
Mmm.

Ann Marie McQueen (45:03.474)
And it's like, yeah, that's not irresponsible. That's actually irresponsible.

Sally (45:07.358)
Yeah, it's a crazy world we're living in through the media, through social media. It really is.

Ann Marie McQueen (45:13.792)
How do you deal with it when you get it in the neck like that? it's hard, right?

Sally (45:18.358)
I recognise it's a threat to people's worldview and people hold on to their worldview and they become very identified with their worldview and if they're not used to having psychological flexibility and being able to go, maybe I'm wrong, maybe there is something. I suppose it's...

It's really threatening to people who have constructed their whole life around one way of thinking that has been funded by big oil or big pharma or something. then, yeah, and then all of a sudden they're starting to see the truth. They are going to, generally speaking, act out with anger. And it is a projection. It's maybe the rage that they feel internally at being hoodwinked, projected outwards, because they're not actually ready to see it.

Ann Marie McQueen (45:55.037)
in it.

Sally (46:13.826)
yet.

Ann Marie McQueen (46:14.334)
that feeling that that's anger first when you're telling me something I think I know I already I know so little like how can how can I not know this and I went through all this with journalism because to me when I was a journalist I just wanted to tell stories and I was fair and I would talk to everyone and you know whenever anyone would criticize journalists which they always do when you're at a dinner party or whatever they always have something to say about where you worked or the media and I would get really really heard about it but

It was only when I turned 50 that I started to see the media for what it is and how I played that role. Like how, you know, the people I chose to talk to for the most part wanted to be in the newspaper. And so what they, even now, like if, you know, if someone chooses to speak to me, like what, you know, everyone's got an angle and everyone's got a belief system and it's all sort of funneled. Like your editor comes and says, this is happening. Go look into this. And then you get to the

And it's only as I got later in my journalism career when I was like, I'm not going to be able to work for a mainstream publication anymore. It became harder and harder to do that. I actually had a column in Canada and it was just impossible because they just wanted me like they would say, can you do this? Can you do it this way? And I'd be like, well, no. And, you know, this is just a simple example. It has nothing to do with menopause, but I was writing for the newspaper here and they said they're taking away the expe packages.

and no one wants to come and work here anymore. Can you do a story on it? And I'm like, okay. But I talked to all the recruiters and they were like, we're taking away the expat packages because so many people want to come here. It's not a hardship posting anymore. Like that was the truth, right? And the editor, he just wasn't happy with my story. So that's a long winded way of saying, I get it. I get it. And it's painful when you have a belief system and if you're in a career in a field, because then it's just a bit like this.

Sally (48:02.978)
Yeah.

Ann Marie McQueen (48:10.772)
What's real? What's real?

Sally (48:13.046)
Yeah, yeah, it can be very destabilising for people. But yeah, I think it's useful to talk about, it's useful to be really transparent about, especially in the menopause space when people are looking for the right kind of information for them. Like a lot of it is about trusting your intuition.

and knowing yourself, the more you know yourself, the more you know your values, the more you know, the more you are in touch with your body wisdom as well. And I know you've done a lot of work on that with the somatic therapy that you've done. The more we build up that relationship with our intuition, the more we get that yes feeling, the more we get that no feeling. And also the more we understand about psychology, human psychology, the more we can see a narcissist.

Ann Marie McQueen (48:53.052)
my goodness.

Sally (48:59.808)
as well and how they might be just pushing their own.

Ann Marie McQueen (49:02.852)
don't even get me started because your whole life you just override you know my whole life was like it's not what I think no it's me it's me it's me it's always me and so menopause is a great equalizer of that because I've shed a few friendships where it's like it's not me I'm gonna stop locking looking at my role in this friendship this friendship isn't working and it only worked when I finangled myself you know

to make it happen.

Sally (49:32.238)
Yeah, I noticed your recent blog about relationships. Actually, I didn't read the whole thing. I'm not a paid member. But the initial newsletter, I thought, yeah, that's really interesting, actually. So how have your relationships changed as you've gone through this transition? Because it's a subject that not a lot of people talk about.

Ann Marie McQueen (49:43.507)
Thank you.

Ann Marie McQueen (49:54.207)
Yes.

Ann Marie McQueen (49:57.792)
Yeah, I mean, I think they talk about how it's hard on marriages and it is. It's hard on marriages for the obvious reasons. Like you're living with a turbulent person who doesn't really even know how she feels. That's hard on a marriage. Maybe your libido isn't working and you know, but to me, it's just transforms all your relationships because you really do go from like being more concerned about what other people think and feel and how they feel, which is very damaging. And you weren't like that when you were a little kid. When you were a little kid.

Sally (50:01.612)
Yeah.

Ann Marie McQueen (50:28.248)
you know, you cared about yourself first, which is really, it's not selfish. It's what we should all be doing. And then, and then you kind of come back and you, you're taking your care, taking yourself, you become a mother to yourself. And so that's going to shake up a lot of relationships. And, you know, I had, I had a couple of relationships that I would feel like when I was with the person that we were in a danger zone.

You know that when you're in a conversation with someone and you I joke that it's like a truck backing up like, I don't want to, it's not that I, we have to agree all the time. I don't want to spend time with people like that anymore. Who I just feel like the way I am and the way I talk is just like, I don't know. I don't know how to explain it. And friends that were mean, just mean, say mean things that are kind, you know, are condescending. And I've had a couple of friendships like that.

And I had my own relationship with a narcissist between when I was 44 and 46 and completely lost myself, completely abandoned myself in that because he's a narcissist and a skilled liar. So when I was around him, I felt great. But when he wasn't around me, I felt awful. And my brain would kick up and I'd get pinched nerves and I would feel so anxious because my body was like, something's not right. Like this doesn't make sense. That doesn't make sense. Those people.

You know, he ended up having like, he was on Tinder, he had a whole other relationship and a wife, and he told me he was divorced. And that makes sense because he was always very tired and he was always late. Like he was always like, I'm on my way. But I just spent so much time. It just wouldn't happen again. You know, it just wouldn't happen again. And when I saw that, and I had that happen with a friendship too, where I just had a friendship where, and in that sub stack I sent out, the common denominator is that

I, when they were the person who had it together and I was the person who was like doubting myself and deferring all the time, then the relationship worked. And then when I used my own two eyes and put myself first and the, the, the narcissist is a narcissist. That's not going to work out, but the friendships don't work when I'm like more me. And that's really telling. So, and they just, to me, they just started feeling like, just like

Ann Marie McQueen (52:53.172)
were just like this, even in a conversation, you just know, it's just like, I don't know, I don't know how to explain it. And I used to think in that piece, I talked about how I had a massage, like a couple of years ago, I was telling the woman about this friendship problem, and she was older than me. And she said, you know, you don't always have to have like a big discussion when it's friends, you can just fade away and they're here and you're there and you can come back if you want. But

you don't have to be close. And she's like, just try. And I wasn't able to do it. I was never able to do it because I wanted to be so liked and to have someone always hanging around them. But I was able to do it after menopause. And I call it the Homer and the Hedge. You know that GIF of Homer when he's like Homer Simpson, when he's like backing into a hedge? So yeah, that's what I call it. Because I'm like, I'm in the hedge if you need me, but like I don't really want to hang out with you anymore.

Sally (53:41.6)
Yeah.

Sally (53:49.614)
So you're more boundarid, would you say, like in those situations? Yeah.

Ann Marie McQueen (53:52.414)
Yeah. And there's always been a last moment where I'm like, I'm not doing this anymore. That lunch was terrible. Or that phone conversation was so, you when you're, you spend so much time in your forties, I went away on vacation with some friends who were 10 years younger me and I was, I saw myself so much in them because you just spend so much time like perseverating and focusing and talking about like other people and the way they make you feel and the whatever. And I sound like judgmental old lady, but I was like, wow, that's freeing. Cause that's what I was like.

and so now when I spend time with someone who makes me feel like that, I just think like, yeah, that's not a person for me. Like that's just not a person that's going to be close. Like I'm having all these annoyed thoughts. made, they annoyed me. I can admit that I am annoyed by someone and be okay with it. I could never do that. Sally. Like I could, I'd always be like, hey, what's wrong with you? You're so intolerant. You know, maybe I am. Yes. Yeah. I wasn't.

Sally (54:43.692)
Yeah, you'd be taking the blame. It'd be your fault. Yeah.

Ann Marie McQueen (54:49.216)
Like I didn't think enough of myself that I could just have an actual reaction to a human unless they were super awful, you know?

Sally (54:56.342)
Yeah, like blindly awful. just, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ann Marie McQueen (54:59.432)
Yeah, the narcissist thing is a big one. Like, and I think we should just all learn in school, but it'd be weird because in school, there would be like, what is it one in six have these tendencies? So you'd have this little like, all these little narcissists who would never recognize themselves like narcissists never know they're narcissists, right?

Sally (55:15.886)
Yeah, can you imagine that? Like, half the teachers as well, probably.

Ann Marie McQueen (55:21.216)
Teaching about the no- my god, I didn't even think about it. Like it's nonsense, it could never happen. It's just, it would be great if you could learn, you know? Like I remember in a TV show once a man explained to his daughter that you just, there's some people that are in it to win it and the sooner you can realize it, the better off you'll be.

Sally (55:40.332)
Yeah, I wish I'd understood what narcissism was, you know, many, many years ago, I wouldn't have got into the scrapes that I've got into, definitely. Yeah. Yeah, they're really dodgy situations. So Anne-Marie, we're going to start wrapping things up. What final question can I ask you? Well, I want to ask you about your business and how people can work with you, but we'll do that after your final question. Let's see, let's see. yeah. When...

When you say the phrase midlife reinvention, what does that spark within you? What ideas are sparked within you when I say midlife reinvention?

Ann Marie McQueen (56:20.106)
Well, I felt very much now like I did when I was 30, 31, just fired up, just so excited about all the things that I wanted to do and feeling like there wasn't enough time and how am gonna, but I have like much, much more in the way of skills and wisdom and my heads together and financial stability to be able to do them. And I think the 40s were for me a real time of like knowing that.

I wanted to do something else and just not having an idea what it was, not having any confidence about what it could be, having a good job and I guess the golden handcuffs or whatever and just really trying different things, but just sort of half-heartedly. then, so midlife reinvention is sort of, feel like when it comes together and you just become, you you get those nudges from the universe and they don't go away and you follow them and then it feels good and then you follow them. That's what I think it is. And I think it can be anything you want it to be.

And we're in such a great time because we have all this tech and digital stuff that helps us accomplish. We're talking like this, like, look what you can do, look what I can do. And then when that goes together, your passions reignited, when your hormones settle down, it's just like, I think it's magical.

Sally (57:31.052)
Yeah, I'm very early post-menopause now and for last three months, four months, I have just started to feel absolutely freaking amazing. I'm like, thank God. Like, I think I'm putting weight on now because I just don't give a fuck either. And I'm like really into sort of...

pleasure and again going out and having a really good time whereas in my perimenopause all I wanted to do was just run away and hide and isolate because it was so traumatic and my body can't handle as much sort grr in the gym as it used to be able to now so my workouts are lighter which is really nice but yeah.

Ann Marie McQueen (58:21.536)
That's good.

Sally (58:22.504)
Mentally, I just feel so free. I feel really comfortable with myself. I feel comfortable talking to people who before I would have considered like, you know, I can't be around them. Like I'm not worthy.

Ann Marie McQueen (58:35.614)
Yeah, that ease, right? Like that ease of being yourself. had a lot of people with social anxiety and I did too. Just really feeling self-conscious. I notice now I don't sweat what to wear. I don't sweat, if I was going on a date, which maybe I will soon, I've taken a break from dating, I know I used to obsess, like, where will I say we meet? It has to be perfect. No, that place is too quiet. No, that place is too loud. No, like none of this stuff, all of this stuff really calms down, I think.

Sally (58:37.249)
Yeah.

Sally (58:41.677)
Hmm.

Sally (59:04.022)
Yeah.

Ann Marie McQueen (59:05.28)
And the workouts, like I used to have one of my problems was I had to work out like a crazy amount to deal with my anxiety and stress and to stuff everything down through working out. So when that passes, I don't know. Like it's a strange feeling, right? It's like, oh, I'll do some weights and I'll go for a walk. And like, I don't need to like burn off this energy.

Sally (59:27.086)
you're absolutely bang on. Like I couldn't have said it better myself. That's the key because I don't have that anxiety anymore. I don't need to constantly be burning it off. So my muscles and fascia and everything can just take a bit of a break. Like for sure I was probably overworking out. Yeah. No, definitely not. It's been amazing chatting to you. What's next for Hot Flash Inc? Have you got any big bold plans or are you just ticking it over?

Ann Marie McQueen (59:41.674)
Yeah, it wasn't.

Yeah, that wasn't good for us.

Ann Marie McQueen (59:49.578)
huh, you too.

Ann Marie McQueen (59:57.118)
No, this year, so I'm writing a book. I'm going to be publishing that on Amazon in September.

Sally (01:00:03.584)
Amazing. Can't wait for that.

Ann Marie McQueen (01:00:05.208)
And then, yeah, and then I'm going to do a course on the back of the book. So that'll just be bringing like the most actionable things to help people go through period menopause, whether in it or whether you I would love to get people who aren't in it yet, like just a very actionable manual, because, know, sometimes you read these books and they're just like they go off in all these different directions and there's too much information almost. It's like I just want to help people. I just want want a manual to basically for what I

I needed. that is a big undertaking. But that's what I'm doing. And that's my big monetization thing too, because this has been quite a hobby. I have definitely made money. I have sponsors and things like that. But this is the next leap because honestly, you can't do it forever. Yeah, exactly.

Sally (01:00:39.778)
Amazing.

Sally (01:00:54.274)
Yeah, without making some decent money, yeah, for sure. But you do do one-to-ones, don't you? Like you work in the corporate world, but you also, if someone's listening to this thinking, you know, you've got some good information, you've spoken to a lot of incredible people on your podcast, so you've done a huge amount of your own research. And we haven't really gone into a lot of the complexities of it. So if you do want to get an idea of how much Anne-Marie actually knows, then do listen to her own podcast.

Ann Marie McQueen (01:00:59.242)
I do, yeah. Yep.

Sally (01:01:23.042)
But yeah, you do one-to-ones with people, don't you?

Ann Marie McQueen (01:01:23.392)
Thank you. I absolutely do. you know, they're like, I could, I'm a journalist, not a doctor, but I could absolutely just answer questions and help you cut through a lot of this confusion and present this to you if you didn't know what to do. And the other thing that I can do is if you're, have a business, you want to know the lay of the land, I have a real global view of sort of the landscape of what's going on and what, you know, what products are there and what research is being done. Not all of it, obviously, but I have a pretty, I'm, you know, I have a pretty well.

view on it. So those are the two things I offer.

Sally (01:01:56.044)
Yeah, brilliant, brilliant. Thank you so much.

Ann Marie McQueen (01:01:57.908)
And if you need a pep talk, if you need a perimenopause pep talk, we'll give it to you.

Sally (01:02:01.55)
That sounds like I could have done with that a few years ago for sure.

Ann Marie McQueen (01:02:07.04)
Me too. We're just doing the stuff we could have done with, you know? It's nice. Thank you. Thank you.

Sally (01:02:11.136)
Exactly. Thank you so much, Anne-Marie. It's been amazing.