178 How Exercise Changes into Post Menopause with Sam Palmer

Join me and Sam Palmer in our riveting conversation about how exercise might need to change during the peri to post menopause transition. Sam Palmer is the founder of Midlife Makeover, and in this conversation, we talk about:

🌱 Personal Growth and Family Dynamics
🌱 The Evolution of Exercise During Menopause
🌱 Injury Management and Recovery Strategies
🌱 Mindfulness in Movement and Active Rehabilitation
🌱 Setting Goals and Phases of Training
🌱 The Importance of Specialized Coaching for Menopausal Women
🌱 Holding Space for Clients
🌱 Empathy in Personal Training
🌱 Overcoming Barriers to Exercise
🌱 The Importance of Movement
🌱 Navigating Food and Nutrition
🌱 Mindset Shifts in Menopause
🌱 Community and Support
🌱 The Role of a Coach

Sam’s Links:

Website: www.midlifemakeover.co.uk

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sampalmermidlifemakeover/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/midlifemakeover/

Sally's Links:

[Free Guide] Healing The Trauma Underlying Your Menopause Symptom Severity:  https://www.sallygarozzo.com/healingtraumatheguide 

Menopause Wellbeing Practitioner [£127] https://www.sallygarozzo.com/meno

Cold Water Therapy Practitioner [£127] https://www.sallygarozzo.com/cold

Transformational 30 Day Rewire (Includes RTT) [£447]: https://www.sallygarozzo.com/rapid-transformational-therapist

Transformational Trauma Informed Coaching [From £247]:  https://www.sallygarozzo.com/transformational-coaching 

Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/sallygarozzomindmentor

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sallygarozzo/

Send me a voice clip via What’s App - https://wa.me/message/FTARBMO7CRLEL1

Transcript

Sally (00:01.144)
So my guest today is the lovely Sam Palmer. Sam is the founder of Midlife Makeover, an online community that provides women with fitness and lifestyle support throughout menopause and beyond. Sam's career began in the NHS where she trained as a nurse and eventually became a sister in neonatal intensive care. After becoming a mother,

Sam (00:02.638)
is the lovely Sam Palmer. Sam is the founder of Midlife Makeover, an online community that provides women with fitness and lifestyle support throughout menopause and beyond. Sam's career began in the NHS where she trained as a nurse and eventually became a sister in neonatal intensive care. After becoming a mother, she sought a role that balanced family life and her passion for teaching.

Sally (00:25.248)
she sought a role that balanced family life and her passion for teaching, leading her to retrain as a teacher and move into further education. With a desire to do things in her own way, Sam and a colleague launched their own business, offering first aid training to both businesses and individuals. Around the same time, she followed her love for running and became a certified running coach. This led to the creation of a women's fitness club in Sevenoaks, Kent, where

Sam (00:30.124)
leading her to retrain as a teacher and move into further education. With a desire to do things in her own way, Sam and a colleague launched their own business, offering first day training to both businesses and individuals. Around the same time, she followed her love for running and became a certified running coach. This led to the creation of a women's fitness club in Southern Oaks Kent, where, which has since touched the lives of thousands of women.

Sally (00:54.67)
which has since touched the lives of thousands of women. In 2014, Sam was named UK Coach of the Year, proud moment in recognition of her work. And she has since received many local awards for her dedication to women's health and fitness. Midlife Makeover was born from Sam's desire to support women through the challenges of midlife and menopause. Her online programs, including Move Over Menopause,

Sam (00:59.534)
In 2014, Sam was named UK Poet of the Year, a proud moment in the submission of her work, and she has since received many local awards for her dedication to women's health and wellness. Midlife May Cobra was born from Sam's desire to support women through the challenges of midlife and menopause.

Sam sounds quite good. Who is this woman?

Sally (01:24.29)
focuses on simple, practical lifestyle changes that can make a big difference to wellbeing. To date, she has helped thousands of women navigate this stage of life. Phew, I did it, Sam. I did it, Sam.

Sally (01:43.788)
Well, it's you, my love. Can you let that in? How are you doing, lovely? It's been a while since we spoke.

Sam (01:51.69)
It's been a while, a good few years. Yeah, I'm doing okay, thank you. I'm doing okay.

Sally (01:55.086)
Good. It's lovely to have you back on the podcast. And we recorded our first episode together on, well, it was released on the 1st of December. So it's nearly four years to the day actually, which is a bit weird, isn't it? Very cyclical. And so much water has gone under the bridge since then. And I'm always curious to know how have people changed in the passage of time? So how have you changed or what has changed and how have you changed?

Sam (02:07.245)
Wow, yeah, it's a bit weird, it? Yeah.

Sam (02:12.974)
I'm just curious to know.

Sally (02:23.232)
in that time, Sam, in four years.

Sam (02:25.457)
I've learnt to slow the fuck down. Am I allowed to say that? I think inherently people don't really change. I'm always going to be over enthusiastic. I've tried to have what they call a yoga voice. I've tried to be one of those people that feel people really calm when they listen to you, but I can't be that person. I'm the person who's enthusiastic and motivated.

Sally (02:27.98)
Me too. Yes.

Sam (02:49.578)
and it wants to inspire people to do things. But I have learned much more how to say no to things. My family circumstances are very different. My mom's got dementia and I've finally understood what was happening to the people I loved or knew around me who were going through that. I was thoughtful about them and the fact that they disappeared from the world, if you like, the social world as they got sucked into caring for elderly parents, but it wasn't my world. And it very definitely is now. And it's given me a...

Sally (03:14.158)
Hmm.

Sam (03:19.468)
a much better understanding of the true meaning of the sandwich generation, rather than just using the terminology.

Sally (03:24.984)
right.

Yeah, because we do use these terms, don't we? We bandy them around, like, you we hear other people talking about them, but actually our lived experience when it happens to us, I know my mum and dad are getting on a bit and sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and think, gosh, you know, do I need to be there a little bit more for them? Because they won't necessarily ask for help either. And so you do have to be a bit psychic with your parents sometimes and really sort of tune into what they need. So yeah, totally understand that.

Sam (03:29.846)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Sam (03:41.184)
Okay.

Sam (03:49.006)
So you do have to be a bit psychic with your parents sometimes and really sort of tune into what they need. So yeah, totally understand that. And with that, Sally, if we're all going to be very honest, comes a learning about a little bit of resentment because, you know, their needs do have to be put not at the top of the pile, but they have to be factored in. And what was okay.

Sally (04:05.71)
Hmm.

Sally (04:12.696)
Yeah.

Sam (04:14.978)
for a comfortable parent-child relationship five years ago is not okay now. And we have to learn to accept that. And that's not easy.

Sally (04:20.814)
Mm.

Sally (04:24.3)
Hmm yeah, yeah it's definitely a change, a change in the relationship dynamic which is always changing and it changes quite a lot over the menopause transition. know for me pre-peri-menopause or just as I was going into peri-menopause there was this big kind of wake-up call, my god I'm no longer a child, I'm an adult, I'm an adult now, I've got to behave like an adult. We still you know have a bit of fun and all of that not be too adult.

Sam (04:27.425)
Mmm.

Sam (04:48.782)
still, you know, have a bit of fun and all of that, not be too adult. But then as I'm in my menopause year now, so I've stopped having periods.

Sally (04:52.344)
But then as I'm in my menopause year now, so I've stopped having periods, haven't had a period for quite a few months, you know, that sort of cyclical living doesn't feel like it's, well, I am living cyclically, but I'm trying to find out what that looks like without a period, if you know what I mean. And my relationship with my parents is changing again, you know, going into that sort of year. I feel like I'm shifting into more of a...

Sam (05:00.686)
you know, that sort of cyclical living doesn't feel like it's, well, I am living cyclically, but I'm trying to find out what that looks like without a period, if you know what I mean. And my relationship with my parents is changing again, you know, going into that sort of year. I'm, I'm, I feel like I'm shifting into more of a, the nurturing role with them, more of an understanding. I still get frustrated, but I have to.

Sally (05:20.994)
of a nurturing role with them or of an understanding. I still get frustrated, but I have to elevate my awareness and I think, hmm, that's not an appropriate, well, it is an appropriate reaction because it's a reaction, but how do I respond to that differently without getting my knickers in a twist or hurting them or upsetting them? Because it's not their fault. So yeah.

Sam (05:45.126)
And in just the same way as we had to learn to be pubescent girls who communicated with people in different ways and we had to learn perhaps to be mums for those of us who were.

Sally (05:55.511)
Yeah.

Sam (05:55.67)
We have to learn how to be this person too. know, there's a lot, we never stop learning.

Sally (05:58.518)
Yeah.

No, it's such an evolving journey, isn't it? And that's also what I wanted to talk to you about today was about the subject of exercise, because I know this is your specialty, and exercise intensity, really, and how that changes over the course of our menopause transition, how that might have changed for you. I know for me, certainly, it's changed massively, actually, even over the last four months, I am no longer able to

do the intensity of exercise that I use. actually makes me feel ill, it's not what my body wants, whereas before it kind of was what it wanted. So I wonder if you could speak to that a little bit because I know you're passionate about this.

Sam (06:47.825)
I think in our 20s, 30s, 40s, intensity is exciting. It's challenging. And certainly from a visual point of view, as a woman looking at her own body in a mirror,

it seems to have some fairly strong positive results. You know, I know as a marathon runner or somebody who's done triathlons or anything which is really quite high intensity, there's a difference between working really hard for 20 minutes or what we're talking about here, which is just the amount at which by which you go for it as it were. And when we go for it in those years, we tend to get fairly positive feedback. But I think there's a misconception that that continues forever.

Sally (07:08.653)
Yeah.

Sam (07:36.258)
because actually if you truly listen to your body, and people like me battle against listening to it, if you truly listen to it, often your body is telling you it wants something different. So it wants intensity, but for a much less intense period of time. It might want intensity for five or 10 minutes. And that might be enough to give you all the intenseness, if you like, that you need. And then we need

Sally (07:41.324)
Yes!

Sam (08:05.336)
flexibility and we need passivity. We need restorative stuff. We need a whole lot of different types of movements. So the intensity with which I approach exercise now is in the breadth of types of movements I bring into my life and that I encourage the people who I work with to do as well. So it may be that you actually spend as many hours of your week

moving, but in a very different way.

Sally (08:38.895)
So you might move more but with more variety so it's like more of a low-grade movement but over a longer period of time would you say?

Sam (08:43.908)
Absolutely.

Sam (08:50.25)
Absolutely, yes, absolutely. We can't be armchair athletes anymore. Again, in our younger days, we would go to the gym maybe two or three times a week and we'd work really hard. And then we'd go back to our desk or our sofa or our world. And you know, we'd say smugly, I do two really tough workouts a week. And actually, we can't do that anymore. In fact,

Sally (09:03.202)
Yeah.

Sally (09:15.053)
Hmm.

Sam (09:15.872)
I was talking to a lady who's just hit her 70th birthday actually, and I was talking about holidays. And this may be for the people listening to this, you may think absolutely totally disagree. But when you were juggling young families and trying to work full time and trying to keep a household going and you went on your holiday, it really was quite acceptable to lie on a sunbed for two weeks. Actually, at our age now, and yes, I am still working full time and I'm still looking after my parents.

If I lie on a sunbed for two weeks, the day after that two weeks, I won't be able to move. So my rest time has to involve more movement than it used to, because if I lie still too long, I just seize up.

Sally (09:55.662)
Hmm.

Sally (10:00.002)
Yeah, that is incredibly true. And that's something that I've found myself so much more. People call me restless, but I'm not restless. It's just, know what my body needs. It's like this low grade movement, just titter-vating, faffing around the house, moving things from here, putting things away, clearing out a little cupboard, maybe putting the hoof around, doing a bit of dusting, just light, low grade work.

Sam (10:13.39)
Yeah.

Sally (10:25.048)
I'm finding that that's what my body wants a bit more. And then, you know, I have, I want to talk to you about injuries actually, because a lot of people our age, especially if they've been going at the gym like a 20 year old will end up with injuries. And that happened to me. So at the beginning of the year, people listening to this podcast might remember in January, I started with a new personal trainer who was a strongman athlete. Okay. So I was doing all the PB stuff.

Sam (10:27.182)
bit more. And then, you know, I have, I want to talk to you about injuries actually, because a lot of these...

especially if they've been going at the gym like a 20 year old will end up with injuries and that happened to me. So at the beginning of the year people listen to this podcast might remember in January I started with a new personal trainer who was a strongman athlete. Okay so I was doing all the PB stuff and it was so thrilling, so exciting for me to lift, you know dead lifting like 70 kilos I've never done that.

Sally (10:54.53)
And it was so thrilling. It was so exciting for me to lift, you know, dead lifting, like 70 kilos. I'd never done that before. And squatting, like, I don't know what it was, 50 kilos or something, and benching and all of this. And by the summer, I had permanent DOMs. You know, my muscles just were not repairing. My back went and I had to stop lifting. You know, my QL muscle.

Sam (11:02.354)
and squatting, you know, what it was, 50 kilos or something, benching and all of this. And by the summer, I had permanent dons. You know, my muscles just were not repairing. My back went and I had to stop lifting. You my...

Sally (11:24.142)
was so big, was like, know, my physiotherapist was like, your muscle's out here, it shouldn't be out here, it should just be, you know, near the centre of your spine. So she started getting me to do some core work, which I could barely do at the beginning. And she also said something to me, which was fascinating. She said, the...

Sam (11:34.038)
So she started getting me to do some core work, which you could barely do at beginning. And she also said something to me which was fascinating. She said...

Sally (11:46.71)
If you link your muscles to nervous system, so the big muscles, when you're working the big muscles, you're working the sympathetic nervous system. When you work the smaller muscles, you're actually working the parasympathetic nervous system. So again, that goes with the hormones as well, doesn't it? So if you're working the big muscles, it's cortisol, it's adrenaline. If you're working the smaller muscles, you're getting, I don't know, probably more endorphins, well, more oxytocin perhaps, or just like,

Sam (11:46.958)
If you, if you link your muscles to nervous system, so the big muscles, when you're working the big muscles, you're working the sympathetic nervous system. When you work the smaller muscles, you're actually working the parasympathetic nervous system. So again, that goes with the hormones as well, doesn't it? you're working the big muscles, it's cortisol, it's adrenaline. You're working the smaller muscles, you're getting, I don't know, probably more endorphins, probably, well.

Sally (12:16.878)
calming things down or less cortisol, shall we say. Right, right, exactly. So my question to you is, should we exercise or how would you approach it with someone if they had an injury and their body was fucked, pardon my French, from all the muscle in the gym, how would you approach you with them?

Sam (12:17.072)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're down regulating your nervous system. Yeah.

Sam (12:37.55)
in the gym, how do you approach it? I think there's a couple of things that I always say to people. So people will say to me, I've got a frozen shoulder, so I can't start for the next six or eight months. Okay, and that's all something, you know, I've got a knee, I've got an ankle. And then I'll say, so what about your other arm? That's okay. And what about your legs and your glutes and your ankles? Are they all okay? Yes, they're okay. If we wait to be pain free, we're never going to do anything.

Sally (12:54.168)
Yeah.

Sally (13:07.362)
Right.

Sam (13:08.204)
So it's important to keep doing something with the bits that don't hurt and some range of movement stuff in fact with the bits that do hurt, but to find somebody who can help you do that. Because it's very difficult to do it on your own. It's both physically difficult to do it on your own. It's very difficult to see whether you're changing your gait or changing your movement patterns on your own because of the injury that you either mentally know that's there or physically you can feel it.

So you could be then changing your patterns of movement causing other issues. So my first thing is don't write yourself off because something hurts. At the moment, my knees are shot to pieces. They're really sore, but I still coach five times a week. I still run twice a week, but I change the way I do it. Poor girls, we can't run downhill because it's too sore for me. So we have to go uphill. I'm not very popular as a running coach at the moment, but by changing the way we do it and...

Sally (13:46.136)
Yeah.

Sam (14:06.476)
I think most importantly, finding somebody who can accept you as you are and help you feel better with what you've got that does work. So we regress to progress. You go back to what doesn't hurt. Regress your movements right back to what feels okay for you. And then we can build it up.

Sally (14:22.734)
Okay.

Sally (14:29.411)
Hmm.

Sam (14:32.206)
Because not only are you injured in your back or your quads or wherever, Sally, but your brain's injured. It's terrified. It's terrified it's going to happen again. We have to give your brain confidence that your body is capable and that that same thing's not gonna happen again if you're not doing the same thing again or if you're approaching it in a different way or slower and work back up from there.

Sally (14:40.461)
That's interesting.

Sally (14:54.221)
Yeah.

Sally (14:57.614)
some more mindfulness in the movement to show that your brain, that you are safe and that you're, you know, you've got the message, you've learnt the lesson. Yeah.

Sam (14:59.138)
Mmm! Mmm!

Yes. Yeah, that's right. Just as in, I mean, I'm not a tennis player. And if I was, I'd be absolutely useless, but just as people knock a ball backwards and forwards before they play a match to get their eye in, as it were, getting people to feel confident and safe about what they're about to do by getting their brain switched on.

Sally (15:19.17)
Yeah.

Sally (15:28.782)
you

Sam (15:30.158)
helps you then progress and allow yourself to be challenged a little bit more. And actually when we're 20 or 30, you can be challenged pretty much within sort of 20 or 30 minutes. Now it might take the people I work with weeks to trust not only me, but themselves.

Sally (15:33.858)
Hmm.

Sally (15:43.8)
Yeah.

Yeah, building that relationship, that trust with their body and also you as well. Yeah. I've heard it described as active rehabilitation. Yeah.

Sam (15:49.324)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Sam (15:56.236)
Yeah, absolutely. Because passive rehabilitation just means you get crunchy. don't get, everything hurts. If we lie still, don't do anything. So active rest as well, you might call it. Yeah.

Sally (16:02.786)
Yeah.

Sally (16:08.746)
active rest, like gentle walking, some like yin yoga style stuff.

Sam (16:15.948)
Yes, and we don't actually have to do classic things. I was with a bunch of elderly people at the weekend for my mother-in-law's 90th birthday. And one of her guests, I asked her if she walked every day. So this lady's 87. And she said, well, funnily enough, I think I'm a bit agoraphobic, but I've got a rebounder, which is one of the mini trampolines. So she said, I put on some music or a film and I walk on my rebounder. And I said, that's really good.

and I talked to her about the impact that she was getting from her foot on this trampoline material and the fact that that would go up to roughly her pelvis area. But actually, if anybody falls over, the first thing we do is put our hand down. So we then need to find something that works in the same way through our upper body. Now, people do press-ups on the floor. You don't if you're 84 and you've never done one before, and probably you don't if you're 50 if you've never done one before.

Sally (17:04.088)
Yeah.

Sam (17:12.556)
So one of the reasons that in the classes we use dino bands or things like that is to start getting that stimulation. So I was talking to her about her hands and I said, you know, do you do some maybe little presses against the wall? And she said, no, dear. She said, I've got the old LaCruzée ramekin dishes made of cast iron. I do some bicep curls with those. And I thought brilliant, brilliant. You don't actually have to use classic gym materials.

Sally (17:36.953)
Yeah.

Sally (17:42.029)
Mm.

Sam (17:42.476)
to be getting some kind of impact or stimulus or to be doing something that's beneficial to your body. It was a classic, absolute classic. She was great. Yeah, she was great, absolutely.

Sally (17:48.906)
Mm, I love that. She sounds lovely. I want her in my life. Yeah, this is such a fascinating conversation. I love this. I find it so inspiring that, you know, we don't have to give up because for me, movement, it improves my mental health so much. It really does. And actually on Sunday, for whatever reason, don't know if it was an emotional reason, but my back really went into spasm again. And you know,

Sam (18:05.556)
Yeah, yeah.

Sally (18:19.51)
Progress is not linear, is it? Sometimes we go up a bit, down a bit, up a bit, down a bit. And Sunday I was having a day where I was like, I just cannot move. I can't even stand up. And I got into a little bit of a funk because I was like, know, movement is my balm. It's how I, it's how I feel better. And I really wanted to go out for a walk today in nature, in the countryside. And I took two painkillers. I took some

Sam (18:20.694)
linear is it? No.

Sam (18:39.157)
I wanted to out for a walk today.

Sally (18:47.49)
combined the good old ibuprofen and paracetamol and I thought, right, let's just, because that, even though some people don't like taking painkillers and I understand why, but when you do and that pain subsides because of the painkillers, it tells your brain that your body is safe. And so you can get back into doing a little bit of movement. And I did eventually and I went around the town and my mental health got better and set me up better.

Sam (18:58.254)
When you do and that pain subsides because of the painkillers, tells your brain that your body is safe. And so you can get back into doing a little bit of movement. And I did eventually and I went around the town and my mental health got better and set me up better for the Monday to come. So that was a really useful thing. think that's.

Sally (19:12.864)
for the the Monday to come you know so that was a really useful thing and I think that's what I love about movement and especially this low-grade movement and doing what you can I love that this 80 year old woman had a rebounder at home it's just fantastic go on

Sam (19:18.318)
what I love about movement, and especially with low grade movement, and doing what you can. And what if this 80 year old woman had a rebound? This is fantastic. I think, again, one of the things that's really important to recognise, so put yourself back to being 18, 19, 23, and you're a serious athlete. You're training for, you know, your county championships, and then you're hoping to go on to something that's a bit bigger. Your coach at that point,

Sally (19:36.534)
Hmm. Yeah.

Sam (19:47.71)
starts you on a series of training where you have phases of training. all your year towards that big goal is set into phases. Nobody trains at their highest point all the time to get to the Olympics. People plan backwards these phases of training. It's exactly the same as we need now. There's nothing different. We can have phases and times of our

Sally (20:11.438)
That's incredible.

Sam (20:17.226)
month of our week, well, we know from a cyclical hormonal cycle point of view that sometimes during a period month, we're much stronger and sometimes we need much more gentle. But let's remove that because many people listening to this will say, well, I haven't had a period for 10 years. But as anybody who moves, there's nothing wrong with having a month where you're trying to get a bit stronger. And then a month where you're trying to be a bit more flexible. And then a month where you're trying to go a little bit further. So you concentrate on walking and can I walk for an hour and a half or

Can I do two hours or actually I've got a walking challenge. So we can think about our movement now in exactly the same way as an athlete who's training for something that we, most of us, aren't looking to train for, by having phases that work fast.

Sally (21:03.074)
That is such a light bulb moment for me. I love that you've said that. I feel like I'm in a personal one-to-one coaching session with you today, So, so the phases of training now, now if you think about that, those phases of training, would you, and I think I know the answer to this, but I want you to flesh it out. Would you set goals? Would you have goals of like, right, okay, by this time next year, I really want to progress, but I'm currently working with an injury.

Sam (21:06.19)
I feel like I'm in a personal one to one coaching session with you today. So the phase of your training, now if you think about that first phase of your training, would you, and I think I know the answer to this but I wouldn't just you out, would you set goals?

By this time next year, I really want to progress, but I'm currently working with an injury. Would you set goals within that?

Sally (21:32.888)
Would you set goals within that time of what you might want to do? I want to do a couch to 5K or I want to be able to PB, I don't know, bicep curls. I want to get up to six kilograms per arm. But within that, also really listen to your body and what your body is telling you. Or would you just listen to your body without setting any goals?

Sam (21:56.543)
I think there's probably two answers to that. One of the things that I do is I get people to put themselves 12 months forward. Okay, so it's now the 29th of November next year.

Sally (22:04.354)
Okay.

Sally (22:08.312)
Yeah.

Sam (22:08.982)
and look back on your year and ask yourself, what did you do? yes, I did a 5K or, and you imagine literally like an athlete does because visualization, as I'm sure you know, is a very, very strong motivator for the things that we would like to do. And if you haven't even thought about it, if you didn't even know, so everybody's playing pickleball at the moment, aren't they?

Sally (22:17.707)
Okay.

Sally (22:25.71)
Hmm.

Sally (22:37.655)
I don't know.

Sam (22:38.88)
Everybody's doing cold water swimming and that keeps being on my periphery and I don't want to do that because it's too cold. And then suddenly everybody's playing pickleball. But let's say I don't know that there's a pickleball championship. So unless I know that there's something that I might even want to do, my brain's never even going to have it as a goal because I didn't know it was a thing. By putting myself 12 months hence and looking back, I can start to sort of mull over what would I like to have done? And some people respond really well to that.

Sally (22:55.074)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Sam (23:07.574)
And some people, it's absolutely a nightmare because they become incredibly target driven, me included. And instead of the being, I want to be, or I want to feel stronger. I want to feel more empowered. I want to be able to put my luggage in the overhead locker. It's all about the goals and the targets. And that for some people can undo all the good you're trying to do.

Sally (23:14.851)
Yeah.

Sally (23:30.882)
because they will override the injuries and they won't listen to their body. Yeah. So I suppose some of the goals that you've mentioned there are more like functional goals as well, like putting your luggage in the overhead locker, being able for me like bending down, picking up dog poo, which is tough when you've got a bad back, but having that as a goal can be actually quite useful because it will make my daily life easier. Yeah.

Sam (23:33.465)
They won't listen.

Sam (23:46.108)
Yeah, absolutely. absolutely. I mean, there's two or three things that we see on social media a lot. One of them is somebody sitting on the floor and getting up from the floor without using their hands. Now, last year I could do that. My knees weren't sore.

Sally (24:10.478)
Hmm.

Sam (24:11.594)
At the moment with my knees, if I see somebody doing that, all it makes me think is, well, it's not even worth me trying because I don't know any other way of getting up without it hurting my knees. And therefore the mental stimulus is actually a negative one. Whereas if we're working with people and saying, okay, so if you can't do that, what's the next thing we can do? And that's a much better way to move people forward. And everybody has also different limitations.

Sally (24:22.935)
Hmm.

Sally (24:40.94)
Mm.

Sam (24:41.318)
with what they can do. Frozen shoulder, we now know it's been accepted as a menopause symptom, this sort tendinopathies or ligament damage. Lots of people with frozen shoulders can't even dry their own hair. So the chances of them touching one hand behind their back to the other one are remote. But what can we get them to be able to do? Can you get to you can put your bra on by next month? Looking at it different ways.

Sally (25:04.704)
Yes, yeah, love that. So it's more of an incremental shift and they're easy goals to achieve, know, wins that you can see on the horizon rather than these goals that are just, you know, unreachable.

Sam (25:14.895)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sam (25:20.268)
Yeah, start small, gain a lot.

Sally (25:23.022)
Yeah, love that. Yeah. Okay, so I wanted to ask you, what is the difference between the way a menopause coach works in the gym and a regular coach? What would you say? Because sometimes we think, just get a personal trainer. Like for me, just get a personal trainer and I'm looking at all these different coaches. But what would be the advantage of me working with someone who

Sam (25:28.536)
you. What is the difference between the way a

Sam (25:46.008)
different coaches.

Sally (25:52.167)
knows this population.

Sam (25:57.23)
have to say, there are an amazing array of personal trainers out there. They're fabulous. They're absolutely fabulous. But when you actually understand at a cellular level what is happening to this woman as she navigates this period, you will understand that even getting through the door of the gym, having worried about what to wear,

Sally (26:01.229)
Yeah.

Sally (26:20.91)
Hmm.

Sam (26:24.3)
and whether it makes her look fat or thin or if she's going to show too much sweat or if in fact her bladder is going to leak, just getting there is an achievement. You will understand that whilst your 30 year old clients may love being told to start with 20 star jumps, this woman in front of you, it's going to be enough to her to say, I'm not in the right place. Because if she does a star jump, yes, her heart rate will go up.

Sally (26:32.525)
Hmm.

Sam (26:49.656)
but it's highly likely that actually all she's going to be thinking about is she going to leak a little bit. And that that woman may have actually had one and a half or two hours sleep that night. She's tying desperately to get fit and strong, but she's not sleeping particularly well. And she can't really vocalize it because she's so shattered. It's having a deeper visceral understanding.

Sally (26:54.242)
Yeah.

Sam (27:16.82)
of that woman and what she's navigating, which may be very different on Monday when you have your first training session and Thursday when you have your second one. It's a whole different set of issues that she's going to deal with that you're trying to overcome. And I think the other thing that is really important is we know that the menopause, peri- to post-menopausal journey is not the same for every woman. So everybody has a pair of quads or glutes or biceps.

Sally (27:27.854)
Mmm.

Sally (27:41.219)
Yeah.

Sam (27:46.766)
And everybody who squats has to squat in the right way for them. But actually every woman navigating through the menopause is having a whole array of different issues overlaid over what her body can physically do or not do. And I just believe that the person who is putting all of that, well, their money and their time and their trust is more likely to get a better outcome if that person really understands the menopause.

Sally (28:08.269)
Hmm.

Sam (28:16.236)
But as I say, I don't want to diss personal trainers because that's not what you're meaning and that's not what I mean either.

Sally (28:19.317)
No.

Sally (28:22.752)
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I know, you know, I know guys in their thirties that specialize in working with menopausal women because that's the demographic who they've been able to get the most change with. And they've subsequently gone, shit, I need to learn about this menopause thing. And they've done it and they're brilliant. Absolutely fantastic. I'm just like, get tingles all over when I think of that. It's the, it's the empathy, isn't it? And that's sometimes what I felt has not

Sam (28:28.622)
that specialize in working with menopausal women.

Sam (28:35.695)
Yeah, and great.

Sam (28:45.634)
It's the empathy, isn't it?

Sally (28:52.482)
been there sometimes, you know, just that, yeah, yeah. And just like not wanting to say like feeling like, God, for the last three weeks, I've turned up to this session and here I go again, go, I'm really anxious or haven't slept. And I just feel like a broken record. it's like, you need someone on the receiving end of that to be able to hold space for you. I guess as a personal trainee, you're not just showing someone how to move. You are in that moment holding space for them.

Sam (28:54.444)
suck it up suck it up yeah

Sam (29:02.702)
and here I go again going I'm really anxious or haven't slept I'm just for like a broken record

Yes.

Sam (29:20.974)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And in just the same way, Sally, if a 34 year old, you know, with one of my sons wanted to be trained by me, I'm not the right person for them. Absolutely. I wouldn't push them enough. I'm not the right person to do that. You know, there is everybody, it's the empathy and the motivation and the inspiration has to be right for the person in front of them.

Sally (29:22.018)
and you have to have that empathy. Yeah, so lovely that you do that.

Sally (29:34.04)
Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sally (29:47.712)
Yeah, there's got to be a synergy, hasn't there? Yeah. So if we're thinking about somebody who's in their 50s, 60s or 70s, who's never done any exercise before, who really wants to start somewhere, and they're just not in the habit of exercise, what would you say to them about how to change the habit of perhaps being sedentary or that kind of mindset around maybe that fixed?

Sam (30:03.106)
just not in habit.

Sally (30:17.238)
mindset perhaps, not having that fluidity or that responsiveness to movement.

Sam (30:23.122)
I think in honesty, so I have a program called Feel Great and Eight, which is an eight week fitness program. And in honesty, it takes quite a lot of that time. So yes, they start moving more and doing the exercise, but it's the changes in their brain as they begin to understand the why whilst they go through it. So

Sally (30:42.158)
Okay.

Sam (30:45.12)
Often people have got a real fear of starting. They're scared they're not going to be able to keep up. They're scared they're going to be too old. They're scared they're going to be judged on how little they can do or how little flexibility they've got or any of those things. So trying to allay people's fears, I think, is the first low grade messaging to help people feel more confident. And they're scared often of the person in front of them. So whilst I would love...

Sally (31:08.814)
Hmm.

Sam (31:14.284)
Would I love to be a size eight and leap around in a crop top looking amazing, like a lot of the Instagram influencers do. That's not me. And I think most of the time that's absolutely fine because I want people to see that the person they feel they look in front of them is like them, you know, and, know, it's just a bit further perhaps along the fitness journey. I also think that it's important to help people have self-belief. So if people have never come from

Sally (31:20.93)
Yeah.

Sally (31:34.445)
Yeah.

Sam (31:44.256)
a fitness background at all. They may have very fixed beliefs about what fitness or movement or exercise or workouts or gyms or whatever, what that means. In just the same way as I think I've said this to you before, Sally, if you said to me now, right Sam, I'd like you to sing a solo, I would, I can't think of anything worse. I honestly cannot think of anything worse.

because my background is not a musical one. It doesn't run through my veins like it does for people who perhaps have got that background. So if you've got a fitness background, your belief systems might be slightly different. You might actually believe you're gonna be as fit as you were when you were in your 30s and we have to manage that expectation. But if you don't, we have to start people believing that there is a benefit for them to start now, that they can do something, that they can have a different result from what they were expecting. I think also,

Sally (32:15.906)
Mm-hmm.

Sam (32:38.56)
telling people that their health issues or concern are not a barrier to doing something, addressing that right upfront. I've got a carpal tunnel syndrome or I've got a plantar fasciitis. That's fine, we'll work around it. Nearly everybody's got something. So getting over that. And then the other thing that I know people tell me is really scary is when fitness instructors use words like WOD workout of the day, we're going to do compound movements.

Sally (32:44.002)
Yeah.

Sally (32:52.504)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Sam (33:08.014)
the hell does that mean? What are my glutes? I know a situation where somebody said, right, I want you to feel your glutes and a whole load of women got their hands and they were feeling their bottoms. No, we mean squeeze them. How do you know if you don't know what your glute is? In the same way as you might tell somebody to sing a particular note, what does that mean? So the language and the terminology, everything has to be shifted to encourage that person that they're in a safe space and to start slowly.

Sally (33:27.096)
Yeah.

Sally (33:32.663)
Mmm.

Sam (33:37.846)
and that movement means different things to different people. we then, the final thing we do is we look at their week and work out reasonably, what can they fit in?

Sally (33:40.686)
Mmm.

Sally (33:48.044)
Right, yeah, because otherwise if it's too much, they're not gonna, they're gonna get overwhelmed right from the get-go and just think, I'm not gonna even start this. Yeah, so.

Sam (33:51.815)
No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Most of my workouts are 30 minutes. That's enough. Because...

Sally (34:00.044)
Yeah. And do you recommend that three times a week or?

Sam (34:04.352)
I recommend that people walk every day, whatever. I recommend that people do some kind of strength snacks, which might be five or 10 minutes while you're boiling the kettle, or it could be a 30 minute workout that you do on YouTube or with me or something like that. And I recommend that we do something once or twice a week that makes us puff. Now, whether that's gardening, pushing a mower up and down the lawn, swinging from chandeliers, having all sorts of rumpy-pumpy in the bedroom, it doesn't matter.

Sally (34:06.424)
Yeah.

Sally (34:12.312)
Mm-hmm.

Sam (34:32.31)
what it is that's making your heart rate go up, but we need some of it. But again, that evolves over time. If you start by telling people you're going to do this, this, this, and this, the first thing they do is go, whoa.

Sally (34:34.466)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sally (34:44.022)
Yeah, and I think especially as we get older, we like being told what to do less. We like being invited and to consider and maybe approach with curiosity, you know, because we're quite well defined, I think, when we get to this age and maybe older and we know ourselves and there's, you know, we're certainly perimenopause is like an enforced identity shift for so many women, whether that's slowing down or speeding up. So.

Sam (34:49.762)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sally (35:12.034)
I think approaching, like you say, approaching, it's lovely that people like you exist for people to support them through the menopause. It's this lovely intuitive way. So no, this, didn't mean that. I mean, you're having to be more intuitive. You're having to be more tuned in to them. Yeah. On like a psychological level, actually. And start right from the beginning and almost like preempt second guess what they might be feeling. Yeah.

Sam (35:19.886)
this lovely intuitive way. no, this, didn't mean that. And then you're having to be more intuitive. You're having to be more tuned in to Definitely, definitely, yes. Like a psychological level. Yeah, yeah. Start right from the beginning and almost like preempt so I can get what they might be- Definitely, definitely. It's absolutely important. And I know that when I see something on-

Sally (35:41.742)
Yeah.

Sam (35:49.452)
I don't know, social media or in an email, there's nearly always two or three triggers that make me think that person understands me. So for the people that I'm working with now, a lot of us have got grandchildren. And just knowing that it's okay to be a fit granny, even just saying that means that people understand that just because their status in the family and they've now become a grandmother doesn't mean that they have to stop being

Sally (36:01.016)
Mm-hmm.

Sam (36:18.242)
the person that they were. In fact, a grandchild is only gonna get heavier and you're gonna pick it up and down. So you may as well get stronger. It's just getting people to identify or to identify and make sure that people realize you're on the same wavelength and they can trust you.

Sally (36:31.328)
Mm, yeah, yeah. It is all about trust at the end of the day, isn't it? Can we pivot a little bit to food? So yeah, this is an interesting subject. In my practice, I often work with people who have disordered eating from constantly being on diets, constantly following what other people are telling them to do. And it's highly disruptive. I worked with a

Sam (36:36.236)
Yeah, yeah.

Sally (37:00.814)
person yesterday and you know was very traumatic for her to go back and understand where all of this come from and how she's really been outsourcing her power. You know she's not been tuned into her own body. I don't know how you feel about diets especially as we go through the menopause and what your approach to food and nutrition and sort of maintaining a healthy weight through menopause is but yeah would you like to speak to that?

Sam (37:09.23)
I am very outspoken on this. Very outspoken. I believe really strongly that our bodies are designed to fast.

Sally (37:32.252)
good skits.

Sam (37:39.04)
Overnight. We're designed to have a nice evening meal, not too late. And we're designed not to eat overnight on the sofa in front of Netflix till five in the morning. But we are designed to fast overnight and get up at some point the next day and have a meal. I don't believe that people really function well being told not to eat on a Tuesday or a Thursday, or only to have a certain amount of calories on a Monday and a Friday.

Sally (37:39.726)
Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Sally (37:51.032)
Mm-hmm.

Sally (37:55.726)
Yeah.

Sam (38:06.912)
I believe in the, I think people call it the 80-20 rule, that basically we should eat healthfully and widely with as much color as possible, 80 % of the time. I also feel quite strongly that a lot of people have started living through an app on their phone, watching their blood sugar go up when they have a scone and jam and cream, because somebody's taken them to the Ritz for their birthday to celebrate with a lovely tea.

Sally (38:10.339)
Yeah.

Sally (38:15.064)
Mm-hmm.

Sam (38:35.35)
and they go home feeling guilt. Our blood sugar's designed to go up and our insulin levels are produced and everything comes back down and it's fine. Food is one of the glorious pleasures in life. However, I think a lot of people just eat too much. And that hasn't come about because we're greedy. I think often it's come about as we've gone through...

Sally (38:37.357)
Right.

Sally (38:44.024)
Yeah.

Sally (38:53.261)
Yeah.

Sam (39:01.164)
particularly motherhood, where we just put stuff on plates, you know, two for you, two for you, two for you, two for you. And we get used to seeing a certain amount of food on a plate and thinking that's what our body needs. Our eyes have adjusted and our stomach's adjusted. And actually, and this is quite challenging, if we start just bringing everything down by about 10%, eating most of the same foods, but reducing everything by about 10 % or so, we're often satisfied way before our...

brain thinks it is, and we would actually probably feel more comfortable eating the same food, but slightly less of it. Told you I was outspoken.

Sally (39:39.487)
I love it though, it makes perfect sense to me it's logic, it's total logic. Because if you think about you know my grandparents and the post-war generation you know they would eat much smaller platefuls and they would have yeah exactly of like you know my nan used to make these really lovely flapjacks, she used to make fudge and these coconut cakes and you know things like that.

Sam (39:54.619)
of suet

Sally (40:05.086)
And, but their meals were smaller and their evening meal was like jam, sandwiches, a few crisps, and that was it, you know. But it's smaller portions.

Sam (40:06.254)
think their meals were smaller.

Sam (40:11.59)
That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think I Have I have a rule which is basically to avoid beige food So, you know generally in my life if it's beige I try not to eat it But I also have a rule of never saying no to something if I really want it But I think I've got a very sweet tooth. So there's a couple of tips that I use That helped me with that. So I have a three bite rule

Sally (40:25.678)
Mm-hmm.

Sally (40:39.085)
Yeah.

Sam (40:39.406)
So if I'm, you know, we're in the stage, if you're listening to this after Christmas, we're in the stage of in the run up to Christmas with all the Christmas parties where you're invited to loads of things and everybody's giving you some kind of chocolatey or fatty or sugary pudding. Now, I love that. And we also have that feeling that I've paid for it. So for me, the three bite rule, which means I will either share it with somebody so I can have three bites or I will only have three bites of it.

Sally (40:57.795)
Yeah.

Sam (41:07.082)
my brain often just wants the sweet fix at the end to tell it that we finished eating. But the other way around that that I deal with it is I always carry chocolate in my bag. I've always got a couple of small bits of 70 % cocoa solid chocolate in my bag. So if it's impossible for me to have a three bite rule, I will just sneak a bit of chocolate while I have a peppermint tea at the end.

Sally (41:11.435)
Yeah, yeah.

Sally (41:22.862)
Mmm. Mmm.

Sally (41:31.348)
Yeah, that's really good actually. Yeah, I love my dark chocolate and yeah, always finish like my lunch, my breakfast, actually my breakfast. I finish my breakfast with a little bit of dark chocolate as well. Feels like it completes the meal. I feel satiated and satisfied and yeah, all of that. Yeah.

Sam (41:42.35)
because I could complete the meal, I could satiate it and satisfy. There may be something in that that means we should limit that completion to only one meal a day. I don't know. I'm not a dietician or a nutritionist. I'm a normal person who tries to give what I think is sensible advice. And so I try to allow the chocolate or sometimes I, well.

Sally (41:57.068)
Hmm.

Sally (42:04.407)
Mmm.

Sam (42:09.836)
we do have some beautiful, really expensive dates. So at lunchtime, I will have a date, just one of them, and that's really sweet, and that gives me the same finish. And at breakfast time, it may be that you want it, but if you wait 15 minutes and you still want it, you can have it. But if after 15 minutes, you've actually distracted yourself and you realize, hang on, I actually don't need to go back downstairs and get the chocolate, it was just a craving, it was an association.

Sally (42:12.716)
Hmm. Hmm.

Sally (42:19.117)
Yeah.

Sally (42:27.886)
Mmm.

Sally (42:34.093)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's that association, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. And you can break those just by changing the pattern a few times if you want to. Yeah, all comes down to choice. Yeah, now I agree with what you've said about the 80-20 rule. You know, we've got to have pleasure in our lives. Food is very pleasurable. But also, know, healthy food can be extremely pleasurable as well. It's how you frame it. It's what you dress it with and how you cook it.

Sam (42:39.426)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. If you want to, if you want to. Yeah.

Sam (42:53.11)
Yeah

Sally (43:03.982)
And yeah, I do believe that we do need a certain amount of fasting time as well. It doesn't have to be dramatic. It doesn't have to be 16 or 18 hours a day. It can just be an overnight fast from dinner to breakfast, maybe pushing your breakfast back a little bit if you feel you want to. Yeah, there was so many simple things we can do, increasing our protein as well.

Sam (43:23.402)
Yes, I mean, with the people I work with, the two first nutrition things that I start to talk to them about, other than drinking water, are their protein and their fiber. Because many of the people I work with are brought up in the lean cuisine generation, where we had those awful boxes of 300 calories and, you know, it wasn't there wasn't much protein in it. So trying to change some of those perceptions, you know, is part of what I do as well.

Sally (43:33.165)
Yeah.

Sally (43:37.536)
You

Sally (43:47.36)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, amazing, thank you. Okay, I'd like to talk about mindset a little bit. And we have sort of spoke about mindset through this, but what mindset is helpful to adopt to help your menopause or midlife transition be a little bit smoother? So if we were talking to the perimenopause generation,

Sam (43:58.142)
We have sort of spoke about mindset through this.

Sally (44:13.814)
Yeah, what would you say to that? What kind of mindset attitude would you give advice to?

Sam (44:21.08)
I think if I was just going to say it and be fairly thoughtless, it would be that this stage of your life brings with it the so much opportunity and wisdom and understanding about the world around us. But there's two things that knock that back.

Sally (44:26.711)
you

Sally (44:38.199)
Hmm.

Sam (44:42.438)
One is the impression that other people give us about us as aging women and the sort of condescending attitude or this sort of ageism and how you have to look like something to be accepted. But the other thing, again, we have to be really honest, is if you're not sleeping at all, if your hot flushes are a nightmare, if you've lost all your confidence and your brain fogs through the roof and your anxiety is all over the place,

Sally (44:48.291)
Yeah.

Sam (45:10.072)
There's nothing that I can say about it being the most amazing part of your life that's going to convince you at that point. So I think we have to be really honest. Most people get to a stage at some point around the menopause or in post menopause where they suddenly feel really empowered, really free, and they understand that their brain has got so much to give, but it's very different from what it used to be.

Sally (45:15.5)
Right.

Sally (45:28.866)
Yep.

Sally (45:37.837)
Hmm.

Sam (45:38.252)
The way that I try to talk about it, based partly on all the work that Lisa Moscone has done, is that at our stage of life, it's no longer about competition. It's no longer about having to prove yourself. It's about having the wisdom and the grace to recognize how you can support other people in their growth, perhaps through the workplace or in their growth into parenthood, if it's your, children or whatever.

Sally (46:00.43)
Mmm.

Sam (46:08.682)
and that we can be recognized for all of our knowledge and our understanding and our wisdom. And that's kind of enough. We also learn, don't we, how to say no to things. We have to practice this no thing. And you practice it very small at home and then you start practicing it when somebody asks you with your steak, okay, and you say, well, actually, no, it wasn't. And we go on practicing that no. And that's really empowering.

Sally (46:15.864)
Yeah.

Sally (46:19.896)
We do.

Sally (46:33.218)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's definitely a move, a shift away, as you say, from competition into collaboration, into community, a little bit more. I'm definitely going through that this year. You know, I have this real desire. I'm going through a big shift at the moment with friendships and understanding.

Sam (46:38.284)
Yeah.

Sally (46:57.258)
understanding my attachments, the quality of my attachments and how they play out in friendships based on my childhood attachments. Because I recognise that going forward, community is going to place, especially as a childless woman, is going to play a huge part in the, in actually the safety of me ageing. You know, because ageing alone is not

Sam (47:04.826)
Yeah.

Sam (47:09.676)
Yeah.

Sally (47:26.843)
It's not wise and on some level it's not very safe. We need people to support us in our transitions for our mental health and our physical health as well. So all this stuff's been coming up for me at the moment which is really powerful but slightly scary.

Sam (47:42.167)
I actually wrote a blog a couple of weeks ago about some of the treatments for menopause, know, HRT and nutrition, etc. Community, I believe, is one of them. We can have online communities, which is what I build. We can have in-person communities like choirs and book groups and art and all of this thing. Women need and thrive in and crave, most women, communities.

Sally (47:47.255)
Hmm.

Sally (47:51.821)
Yeah.

Sally (48:06.734)
Hmm.

Sam (48:07.148)
where they feel heard and they can be open and they feel understood, but they can also support other people. And I think it's really, really important. And actually, since most of my work has been online, I've become much more aware of pockets, certainly in Europe, where my clients come from, where there is no community and why what I do does provide something for some people who live in little tiny villages.

Sally (48:12.919)
Yeah.

Sally (48:26.446)
Right.

Sam (48:34.348)
where there isn't anybody or anywhere they can go and feel that they're connected. So I think you're absolutely right, Sally. Communities, different types of communities are really important.

Sally (48:36.142)
you

Sally (48:40.782)
Hmm.

Sally (48:44.623)
Yeah, really, really powerful. And even, you know, online communities as well, as you've said, can be an absolute lifesaver for people that live in these remote villages. You know, how wonderful it is. I live in Brighton, so there's lots of communities here. Not that I take advantage of it and I'm going to. It's definitely, you know, really getting the message. And I have started to already. So, yeah, amazing. So we're coming to the end of our conversation, but I just want to ask you...

Sam (48:49.39)
can be an absolute lifesaver for people that live in these remote villages and how wonderful it is. live in Brighton so there's lots of I take advantage of it and I'm going to definitely really getting the message and I have started to already. So yeah, amazing. So we're coming to the end of our conversation but I just want to ask you, what's the point of having a coach like you?

Sally (49:14.572)
What's the point of having a coach like you when you can get all the information online? Sell yourself.

Sam (49:18.35)
when you can get all the information on that. my gosh, now how on earth am I going to answer that?

Sell yourself. Sell myself. Because on that morning where you said yesterday, well, I'm definitely gonna do that tomorrow. And something else pops into your head that you could do instead. I'm going to clean the oven. I don't wanna do that either. I'm gonna go and do something. I don't wanna do that either. You need somebody. No, you don't need somebody. It's nice to have somebody who says, come on, you wanted to come. Come for the first 10 minutes and then just sit and watch the rest if you want to. I've got it, I understand.

Sally (49:35.384)
Yeah.

Sally (49:47.822)
Hmm.

Sally (49:54.582)
Yeah.

Sam (49:56.878)
And if you turn on a YouTube video of which there are many, but your knee hurts, the person at the other end of the video doesn't say, Sally, you don't do this one, do it like this. It's got to be the communication, hasn't it? There you are, I've got to tell you. It's about the bond between you and the person in front of you. And for me, sometimes the people in front of me. So if my father phones up halfway during the class, which he has done on two or three occasions and says, know,

Sally (50:00.28)
Mm-hmm.

Sally (50:09.835)
Yeah.

Sally (50:13.826)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sam (50:25.966)
Mummy's spread butter on her napkin, what do I do? Those girls know me, they know I'm real. They know I'm going through exactly what they are. That's really nice for all of us.

Sally (50:33.602)
Yeah, it's really lovely. Yeah, it's really lovely. I love what you do. Can you just tell us a little bit about what you offer people, how it actually works, if someone has been really inspired by you and they want to work with you?

Sam (50:49.011)
So I run permanently an online fitness platform run by four of us all female coaches all who specialize in menopause and we teach the three different types of fitness that everybody needs to do so the strength the cardio and the restorative when you sign up for it you have access to all 11 classes a week but we help you work out what you should be doing which classes you should pick

Sally (50:58.254)
Okay.

Sally (51:05.208)
Mm-hmm.

Sam (51:14.976)
And people who've come from a yogi background need encouragement to do some of the strength and people like me who come from a cardio need encouragement to do the yogi. You know, it's that personal touch that's so important. But three times a year, we run a program called Feel Great in Eight, which I mentioned earlier, which gives you an eight week dip your toe in the water of this fitness program. So you're nurtured in a greater way.

to travel through and get used to the classes and to find out what you like and what you don't like so that by the time you finish the eight weeks, you can decide, yeah, that's it. This is now part of my life. So my online fitness platform is permanently available. And then once or twice a year, I run a VIP program called Move Over Menopause, where you get all of that plus an hour every week talking about something related to menopause. So nutrition, diet.

Sally (51:56.686)
Mm-hmm.

Sam (52:11.406)
weight maintenance, weight loss, brains, all the symptoms, know, it's everything, everything else.

Sally (52:18.975)
And is that like a zoom call with other people is or is that one to one? Okay.

Sam (52:21.366)
Yeah.

No, it's a Zoom call. I do offer one-to-ones. Sometimes people want to talk to me about just one thing. So I have a thing called an Empower Hour. So if somebody just wants to talk about starting strength training, they can do that, or they just want to talk about, you know, whatever. But otherwise it's a group program because community helps.

Sally (52:29.336)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Sally (52:36.577)
Yeah.

Sally (52:42.75)
Yeah, it really does and I would imagine there's lots of lovely people in your community. Do they form friendships? Yeah.

Sam (52:46.926)
Yeah, they're amazing. amazing. Yes. Yes. I'm yet to do, but I would like some on my list for 2025, some kind of away retreat thing with those people so we can actually see each other in real life, potentially in Brighton.

Sally (52:57.07)
Mmm.

Sally (53:02.318)
love to have you yeah it's a lovely city Sam thank you so much where are you most active on social media?

Sam (53:10.318)
LinkedIn, I a lot on LinkedIn, which I love. It's much less scary than Instagram, where I'm at too. And I have a Facebook page and a Facebook group. So I try to be in all places, but I'm not as good as people who post three or four times a day, but I'm there and I'm real and I do what I can.

Sally (53:13.411)
Mm-hmm.

Sally (53:21.729)
Lovely.

Sally (53:30.907)
Yeah, you're amazing. Thank you so much, Sam. I've loved this conversation and hopefully those of you who have been listening have really been able to extract some juice out of this and just really helped you think about some tweaks that you could make in your own life, your own exercise, your own food journey and community as well. So thank you so much, Sam.

Sam (53:51.97)
Thank you so much for having me, Sally.