167 Why Weight Gain Is About So Much More Than Your Hormones with Louise Digby

Join me and Louise Digby, a registered nutritional therapist, as we take a dive into the world of weight loss resistance during menopause.  We talk about:

🌱Why we shouldn’t be blaming our hormones for everything.
🌱 Interesting ‘other’ factors making weight loss harder at menopause.
🌱 The paradox of not focusing on weight loss if you want to lose weight (and what you should be focusing on instead).
🌱 The disruptors lurking in your cleaning and skin care products.
🌱 How and why we become more sensitive as we get older.
🌱 The one food we should all be avoiding for our health (and it’s not sugar!)
🌱 Why personalized approaches to health are so much better than blanket advice.
 

So if you’re ready to be inspired, grab your headphones and join us!  We’ll see you inside. 

Louise’s Links:

Website: https://www.louisedigbynutrition.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/louisedigbynutrition

Sally's Links:

[Free] Relaxation Hypnosis Recording:  https://bit.ly/relaxationwithsally

How to Create Phenomenal Self Esteem [£47]:  https://www.sallygarozzo.com/selfesteem

Menopause Wellbeing Practitioner [£127] https://www.sallygarozzo.com/meno

Cold Water Therapy Practitioner [£127] https://www.sallygarozzo.com/cold

Transformational 30 Day Rewire (Includes RTT) [£447]: https://www.sallygarozzo.com/rapid-transformational-therapist

Transformational Trauma Informed Coaching [From £197]:  https://www.sallygarozzo.com/transformational-coaching 

Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/sallygarozzomindmentor

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sallygarozzo/

Send me a voice clip via What’s App - https://wa.me/message/FTARBMO7CRLEL1 

Transcript

Sally (00:01)
So my guest today is Louise Digby and Louise is a registered nutritional therapist, women's weight loss expert and founder of the Nourish Method to Lasting Fat Loss. Her clients come to her after struggling to lose weight in their 40s and 50s despite eating well and working hard to burn the fat.

Louise transforms her clients health and wellbeing by identifying and addressing each individual's unique needs and imbalances so that they can lose weight, optimize their health and rediscover their sparkle. Love that. Without restrictive dieting or the need for superhuman willpower. That sounds amazing. So Louise, a big welcome to the Menopause Mindset podcast today. How you doing? Lovely.

Louise (00:50)
Thank you so much for having me. I'm doing really good, thank you.

Sally (00:53)
Good, good, enjoying this heat that we're having.

Louise (00:56)
Yeah, it's particularly warm today. It was going to be particularly warm today. maybe if you ask me again at the end of the day, I might say something different, but I am enjoying the heat.

Sally (01:03)
You might say throw me in an ice bath or something. So I'd like to start with, if it's okay with you, one of your posts on Instagram which really piqued my curiosity and I loved it it prompted me to contact you actually. You shared, it was a reel and on the reel it said, hormones have become a scapegoat for weight gain after 40. Hormone imbalances aren't the

Louise (01:08)
Yeah.

Mm.

Sally (01:34)
they are just symptoms just like the stubborn fat. To release stubborn fat we have to work on the systems that impact the hormones and then you go on to explain in the caption a little bit more about what you meant about that. So it was really that idea of hormones being a scapegoat that got my attention because

We see so much of this kind of resignation, don't we, that we are at the mercy of our hormones and there's nothing we can do about it, which I actually think is quite a disempowering stance to ourselves. And I'm sure we'll get on to flesh that out a little bit more as well. But what I want to do is circle back to answering that question of how we lose weight during menopause in a minute. But first of all, I'd love to acknowledge

I'd love to acknowledge our hormones themselves. So why is it so much harder to lose weight in our 40s and 50s? What is happening to the hormones that makes that fat stick to us like glue? What's going on there? Let's start there. That would be so useful.

Louise (02:42)
Yeah. So in your, in your forties and fifties, or maybe even as early as from age 35, there's a big shift happening in your body, which is where your ovaries are essentially shutting down and the sex hormone production is declining. The ovaries aren't producing quite as much. And then

your adrenal glands or your stress glands start to gradually take over some of that production to a degree. So that big shift, whilst the adrenals are taking over the production of the sex hormones, it's not to the same extent. So you do have a decline in your hormones overall. They can be a bit up and down on the way, but that decline in your sex hormones,

has an impact on your weight management because particularly the decline in estrogen, that has an impact on your muscle mass. So you start losing muscle and muscle is incredibly important for, well, lots of things. We're starting to really learn how important it is for overall longevity and health, but when it comes to weight,

You know, muscle is metabolically active. So the more of it you have, the more calories you burn at rest, or just, you know, even when you're sleeping. So having lots of muscle is, is absolutely key to maintaining a healthy weight. that decline in muscle that can come with the drop in estrogen levels can be one of the factors, in this stubborn weight that lots of women get around menopause. but also that drop in estrogen.

it can make you more prone to insulin resistance. So that is also going to make you more prone to gaining weight, making it more difficult to lose weight and also make you more likely to develop other issues, chronic issues, inflammatory issues. So that drop in estrogen is a big factor, but also that shift of the hormone production going from your ovaries to your adrenals,

It essentially also makes you less resilient to the impact of stress on your body because your adrenals are now not only having to produce your stress hormones, but also having to produce your sex hormones. it, you know, your body's really good at conserving resources. So anytime you're under stress, body's going to prioritize making those stress hormones so that you can respond to the stress.

as opposed to making those reproductive hormones, which you don't need so much at that time in your life. So that poorer resilience to stress has a big impact as well because cortisol, your main stress hormone, again, that can contribute to the suppression of your sex hormones, driving up insulin resistance.

causing inflammation, disrupting your sleep, and many of the symptoms that women get around perimenopause and menopause. So it's a bit of a car crash, a bit of a recipe for weight gain, unfortunately, but it doesn't mean that there's not stuff that we can do about it. There's lots that we can do.

Sally (06:13)
It's a perfect storm, isn't it, for weight gain, this whole part, this whole era of our lives. It really is. And I love what you've said there about the muscle mass. think that's so, so, so key when we're thinking about how to, you know, improve our body's metabolism and help our bodies shift, you know, shift the fuel source as well that we're using to stay alive.

the insulin resistance piece, the inflammation piece, the resilience to stress piece. I know for me, I've recently just come out of quite a serious bout of burnout, actually. I had a really tricky time getting back from Gran Canaria last week. It was during the global IT outage. And so I hadn't been sleeping very well for two nights and I had to travel, had to deal with all this stress on like shitty two night sleep.

And when I got home, went straight back into work. And then Thursday, Friday, I completely crashed. into, and I could feel the pain in my kidneys actually. Could feel like this real kind of gripping sort of dull ache around my kidneys and ended up just like sitting on the sofa for a whole day on Friday. was, it was, it was actually really nice. It was like a, I felt like I had the flu, but without having the flu. And it was nice just to like, I was like, my God, my body has finally done

my body has finally called time on this bout of stress and I can no longer keep pushing and pushing. think as well what tends to happen is we develop quite strong willpower as we go through it, because we have to, it's like the willpower that women develop because we have to like kind of keep going, keep going, keep going in the face of so much adversity, know, within our bodies, within the world around us.

So this willpower on top of the stress that the adrenals have at this time of life can really lead to these real crashes, these real burnout crashes. So it's so important.

Louise (08:27)
Hmm. It's such a great observation. I've noticed that my clients, you know, all of my clients are in their forties and fifties really, but before that I worked with all sorts of people, all sorts of ages. And what I really noticed was that it was women who were in their forties and fifties who were the most disciplined. They were so good at sticking to a plan, but they didn't get results because of, you know, most plans are just focused on calorie control and that

cut it because of what's going on in your body. Yeah, certainly this amazing willpower that you develop can actually work against you because you can almost do too much. And a lot of the things that we've been taught to do to lose weight are actually things that can make it worse when you're in this life stage because doing too much exercise, know, undereating.

not getting enough sleep because you're getting up early to go and exercise. They're all going to be very stressful for your body. Drive up that cortisol level and worsen the imbalances in all these systems.

Sally (09:36)
So how does cortisol impact weight? Especially because I believe that cortisol especially impacts weight around the middle, doesn't it? If you've got lot of cortisol, you're tending to have this sort of apple -shaped figure. Is that right?

Louise (09:52)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We do tend to associate raised cortisol with that. It might not be the only contributor because raised insulin will also do that as well. And, you know, the low cortisol is sorry, the low estrogen is tied in with that as well. So there's usually a combination of imbalances that come together that cause that really stubborn belly fat. And the way that cortisol drives that

when your cortisol levels are raised, your body's under stress. you know, in this day and age that stress is usually like emotional stress, or it could be stress from over -exercising or that sort of thing. But what that stress response was kind of built for was more of a, you know, if we're going for a famine or if we are, you know, having to run away from a tiger, that type of thing, more caveman type stress.

which we don't really have anymore, but that kind of famine response, if you like, is your body, the cortisol basically strips your muscle of glucose. It uses your glucose stores to raise your blood sugars so that you've got energy to run from a tiger or, you know, get through a famine and periods without food.

So it essentially uses your muscle stores or your sugar stores in your muscle to do that. But in this day and age, don't need that sugar because we've got plenty of food around us and for most people, blood sugars are fine, if not high already. So your body sweeps that sugar away and stores it around your organs, around your tummy so that you can use it later on.

And so when someone has very high cortisol for a long period of time, you can often have really quite slim legs and arms, but quite a pronounced belly on that apple shape. And part of the reason why that weight around your tummy is so stubborn and you're not losing it from there, but you're losing it from everywhere else is because it didn't occur because of overeating or lack of exercise or, know, greed or laziness.

It didn't come from that. It came from imbalances and various things driving up your cortisol level. So you're not going to shift it by dieting harder and harder.

Sally (12:25)
Right. So the key is rest and relaxation and appropriate exercise. Not killing yourself in the gym four times a week.

Louise (12:35)
Yeah, exactly. And, this is one of the first things that I, I always want people to think about is really flipping the approach on its head and rather taking a punishing approach where you're depriving your body of food and nutrients and you're trying to punish your body and burn as many calories as possible. Instead think about, you know, like you say, rest and recovery, but also feeding your body and giving it what it needs to thrive because

in order to make hormones and repair our muscles after exercise and keep our guts healthy and all these processes that have to happen in the body, we need quite a lot of fuel for that. making sure that you're focusing on nutrient rich meals and very nutrient dense foods as opposed to low calorie or low fat is gonna get you a lot further.

Sally (13:20)
We do.

Right, makes perfect sense. Okay, brilliant, thank you. Something that's just come up for me is androgen dominance. So was thinking about the apple -shaped belly and we talk a lot about estrogen dominance, don't we? But I don't hear much about androgen dominance. Can you explain a little bit what that is? Have you come across it in your line of

Louise (13:59)
It's not something I see as often, I think because of the age range that I work with, it's more likely that your testosterone levels are going to be going a bit too low during perimenopause and menopause. But if your testosterone or your androgens are too high, then that can cause all sorts of issues. High testosterone is often very closely linked with high insulin. So that can again drive

where it gain an inflammation in the body. It's often associated with things like polycystic ovaries. And that again is linked to insulin resistance and sometimes imbalances with the other sex hormones as well. So yes.

Sally (14:45)
And not being able to clear it out as well, I presume, not being able to clear out the androgens like the estrogen dominance. I think that's linked to not being able to clear it out too.

Louise (14:56)
Yes, the dominance is very much linked to not being able to clear it out. Testosterone dominance, can be that your body is really prioritizing making testosterone over estrogen. There's a pathway called the, or a reaction called the aromatase pathway, I want to say.

Sally (15:16)
Yeah, I've heard of that. Aromatase inhibitor. Aromatase. Yeah.

Louise (15:19)
Yeah. Yeah. So that's the type of, like compound or medication that, can inhibit the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. and so that sometimes that pathway can basically be overactive and you can kind of send either too much of your estrogen towards, testosterone or the other way around. it's not something that I know a huge amount about, so, I don't want to kind of like go into too much detail because I don't know.

Sally (15:29)
yes.

Sure.

Louise (15:49)
accurate my information will be.

Sally (15:51)
No, but it does make sense. So there's something within us that can create that pathway between estrogen to testosterone. If that's too active, then you might end up with polycystic over -ears. You might end up with hirsutism, which is sort of facial hair. Maybe like, you can see I've got a bit of acne. I'm asking for myself, basically. I've got a little bit of acne at the moment around my chin. And often I find when I'm a bit more stressed,

Louise (16:12)
Hehehe

Sally (16:20)
But also think it's genetic as well. It's like that type I've got an Italian lineage and you know and I think a lot of the Mediterranean the old -school Mediterranean women you can see that sort of androgeny testosterone II kind of dominance that they have with the apple -shaped figures And they're you know, the hairs on the chinny chin chin So yeah, is there a kind of go on sorry?

Louise (16:41)
Yeah, and some of their androgens are more potent than others. So I don't know if you've ever done a Dutch test or if you've ever looked at a Dutch test, you can see the kind of two main types of androgens and which one you have more of. And if you've got more of one, then you you're going to have far stronger androgen dominant type symptoms than if you've got a lot of the other one, which is much more.

Sally (16:53)
I have,

Louise (17:12)
So just about having high testosterone is more about looking at what's happening to that testosterone.

Sally (17:12)
Gotcha.

makes perfect sense. Yeah, thank you. I must get another Dutch test done actually. I had one probably about a couple of years ago so I think it's time for another one. Right, let's go on to the big question then. How do we lose weight? If we've got this perfect storm of hormones, you know, we're between 40 and 50, maybe a little bit older as well and we're just finding that working harder in the gym is not working.

cutting out calories, maybe intermittent fasting or keto, we're doing all the things, but it's just not working. What would you suggest if someone came to you who was exacerbated, how would you start with them?

Louise (18:01)
Yeah, think the first thing to acknowledge is that everyone is different. And whilst everyone that I work with has the same problem, which is that they are exasperated and they've tried everything and they can't lose weight, the solution does look different for each person, but there are some very common themes. And, you know, like you said at the beginning, hormones are just the symptom. And, you know, we, we can very much impact those hormones by working

Sally (18:06)
Mm -hmm.

Okay. Right.

Louise (18:31)
really the real core foundations. And that's things like gut health, making sure that our guts are functioning properly. And the reason for that is because within your digestive tract, that's where you absorb your nutrients and you break down your food and making sure that you're absorbing properly is absolutely critical for making hormones in a healthy way because we need those nutrients in order to make our hormones.

the proteins, the vitamins and minerals and beneficial fats as well. So digesting is absolutely key, but then also elimination is key as well. And once we've used our hormones, they get detoxed and we eliminate them from the body. And if your gut bacteria and yeasts are imbalanced and if you're not having regular bowel movements, then

there could be a lot of reabsorption of hormones and toxins back into your system, which will be very disruptive to the overall balance. So working on your gut health is absolutely key, for even more reasons than that, because your gut is very linked to your brain health and your moods, your energy, your willpower, your cravings, your sleep, inflammation, toxic load, so many things.

It really is the core of everything. So it's a really good place to start. And then other things to think about are your liver function. We want to make sure that we're detoxing efficiently. And the reason for this is partly what we spoke about earlier, in terms of we need to clear our estrogen. And that's something that can be very easily disrupted.

because there are lots of things that your body has to detox, whether it's alcohol, whether it's medications or drugs, but also pollutants, pesticides, the things that we come into contact with every day through our skincare products and fragrances in the home and all these cleaning products, things like parabens and phthalates and many, many more different types of chemicals.

we come into contact with them constantly and your body has to eliminate them. So the higher your toxic load and the more things that you're exposed to, the harder your liver has to work. And then that is gonna have an impact on your estrogen detox as well. And some of these toxins are also directly disruptive to your hormones because they are very similar in chemical structure to your estrogen.

so they could get in the way of your estrogen binding to receptor sites and cells, or they might just get in the way when your liver's trying to detox your estrogens, is having to detox these very similar molecules instead. So working on your liver health and your gut health are two really good places to start. And then also you think about inflammation, making sure

what we're eating is anti -inflammatory because inflammation kind of underpins most problems in the body, most conditions. So those are kind of like the three core areas that are really helpful to begin with.

Sally (22:06)
Yeah okay so can you give us an example of some anti -inflammatory foods that might be helpful for people to pop into their diets?

Louise (22:14)
Mm. Again, I would say it is individual, know, some, some, thing might be inflammatory to some people, but not to someone else. But again, there are, you know, some very general consensus overall. so, you know, really we're talking about unprocessed whole foods, you know, so your fruits and your vegetables, grains are one of the ones that can be a bit iffy.

Some people do great on grains, other people it can be quite inflammatory for them. But generally, unprocessed grains, particularly if you're chewing them well and your digestive system is working okay, you'll probably be okay with them. you get grains, nuts and seeds and herbs and spices, all that sort of thing, filtered water. They're all very kind of anti -inflammatory food.

Sally (22:55)
Okay.

Hmm and do you recommend any supplements for your clients to help with inflammation and general

Louise (23:10)
things to have in the diet.

Yeah, yeah. So I think supplements can be really helpful. But we also have to be really cautious because, you know, all those supplements are natural, they can be very strong. They can interact with medications. So you do just have to check if you are taking medications, just be very careful. But things like turmeric, really anti anti -inflammatory things like quercetin.

very anti -inflammatory. Simple things like vitamin C, taking a good dose of vitamin C is really powerful and really works in pretty much every area of the body. know, things like selenium and you know, just a lot of the basic stuff. Magnesium, also very antioxidant anti -inflammatory as well.

You know, we don't necessarily need to be going for these really fancy, expensive supplements. Just getting some good quality foundational nutrients in can actually make a world of difference.

Sally (24:20)
Right, exactly. then coming back to what you said before about the gut health, if the gut is always, we always work on the gut first because if we're not absorbing, there's no point in taking really any of these supplements unless we've got a very healthy functioning gut that's absorbing nutrients properly and eliminating the stuff that we need to eliminate. So how do we improve our gut health?

Louise (24:51)
A really good place to start is making sure that you have a really wide diversity of foods in your diet. And, you know, I think I'm guilty of this and many of us are, it's very easy to fall into habits of eating the same things over and over again. you know, even if, yeah, and even if you're having, you know, different meals each day, often they can, they can include the same ingredients, but just in a different way.

Sally (24:58)
Okay.

Definitely, peanut butter.

Louise (25:21)
which isn't necessarily a bad thing, you know, it's certainly convenient and you know, can help with minimizing food waste and that sort of thing. But if, if that's what you're doing, you just want to make sure that each week you are using different foods, to, kind of make up your meals. So making sure that you've got a good wide variety of plant based foods. doesn't mean that you can't have animal based foods as well, but we just want to have a wide variety of the plant based ones. and.

I think it's really important because a lot of people will also feel like they're having variety in their diet. But actually when you look at it, and just to give a very basic example, someone might be having weeter bits for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch and pasta for dinner. That is all wheat. You know, that's just one plant. So we want to make sure that we're getting a different kind of grain or vegetable or whatever it is, you know, and getting.

as many different types of those and colors of those as we can. That's really great for our guts because with the different vegetables and fruits and plants and colors as well, the different bacteria in your gut feed on different ones. So it helps to keep the bacteria in your gut nice and diverse. And that's really important because that helps to basically make your gut more resilient

you know, bacteria and yeast that shouldn't be there. So yeah, the variety of foods is absolutely key. And then something really, really simple and boring is making sure that you chew your food properly. It is so underrated, but it is so, powerful. And this is not just to get you to slow down and, you know, help your brain register that you've had a meal, which does work really well.

but it's mostly to just get you to break down your food more before you swallow it. We kind of forget that what happens in the mouth is the first part of digestion. And, you know, we have enzymes in our saliva, which help us start breaking down our food. And obviously our teeth manually break down the food. know, it's not, chewing isn't just a way of getting the food to the stomach. It's the first part of digestion. And there's been loads of research on it and, you

the research has shown that people that do take their time, people that do chew thoroughly, it can have a real positive impact on their overall digestion, minimizing bloating, helping to regulate bowel movements, partly because it also stimulates the digestive juices as well. So yeah, something as simple as that can be really great for gut health.

Sally (28:10)
Mmm, so simple and free and just takes a little bit of mindfulness doesn't it just to slow down. An old functional medicine therapist friend of mine said that it's almost like you have to switch like you switch a mode on your back in the old old days when you had like an old dictaphone or something you have to switch the mode to program and then switch it back to record so that you have to switch the mode to rest and digest that's why it's called rest and digest.

Louise (28:13)
Yeah.

Mm. Yes.

Sally (28:38)
And to do that, have to get into the parasympathetic. So you have to slow down. If you're rushing to eat, you're not in the right mode to digest. So you're not going to digest. And it's just gonna like, you know, there's not gonna be any absorption or proper elimination. you have to get into the right mode to eat. So me and my husband now just go, right, take a breath. And now we start.

Louise (28:47)
Mm. Mm -hmm.

Right. Yeah. It's something as simple as that. You know, just resetting yourself before you, before you eat, because, know, most of us are eating either on the go or just rushing our meals down, you know, not really taking the time to enjoy the food. And that has an impact on how full up you feel afterwards. If you're not taking time to chew the food, but if you're not taking time to taste the food and appreciate

Sally (29:26)
Yeah, it's true.

Louise (29:33)
then you know that our brain doesn't really register that we've had a meal. You're going to feel hungrier afterwards. So, you know, for appetite regulation, it works very well as

Sally (29:44)
Yeah, yeah definitely. What else? yeah liver. So how do we make, how do we create a really beautifully functioning liver for ourselves during menopause?

Louise (30:00)
So there's kind of two angles that I think we need to think about. One is supporting your liver in detoxing. And the second is reducing your overall toxic load. So in terms of supporting your liver in detoxing, I'm not really talking about doing a detox. I'm more talking about things that are gonna be, you know, sustainable for you to do.

every day, most days, whereas a detox is not going to be sustainable and not necessarily a good way to go. And something as simple as making sure you're well hydrated, really, really impactful for helping your body to detox properly. Again, making sure that you're eating nutrient rich foods because the liver is very, you know, nutrient hungry and, you know, make sure that we've got lots of different nutrients in the diet is going to help

support those detox pathways as well. So I'd say those are really two big things. Simple things like including lemon juice in your water. Chlorophyll is a great addition to water as well to support your liver detoxification. So those are some really simple things that you can do. Having some ground flax seeds.

helps as well. That's more in the digestive tract because it helps to bind up those toxins and carry them out of your body. But also loads of great nutrients in there as well. And then in terms of reducing your exposure to toxins, I think this is where we can really have the big impact, particularly if you approach it from an angle of doing little things and building on that over time. So simple things like

Swapping your plastic water bottle for a glass one or a metal one to reduce your exposure to plastics. Swapping your plastic food storage containers to glass. Again, that's somewhere that plastics can get into our food is through food storage and water storage. So that's a really good place to start. If you don't have the budget to do that, then making sure you don't heat food up in your plastic food storage container.

is a good starting point, taking it out of the containers, putting it on a plate and heating it up will just help to prevent some of that leaching of the plastics. And by the way, this is even if these plastics are BPA free, we still want to avoid them because there's other plastics in there that can leach into your food. absolutely not. So yeah, that's a good place to start. then,

Sally (32:41)
We don't want plastic in our body, do we? It doesn't make sense. No.

Louise (32:49)
In terms of other things, so when you start to run out of cleaning products, when you start to run out of skincare products, candles and fragrances in the home, start looking for natural alternatives. So skincare product wise, we wanna look for things that are paraben free, phthalate free, things that are potentially organic, although it's not.

easy to find things that are completely organic because some ingredients that we need in skincare products just aren't organic. But things that are mostly organic can be a good sign. And there's lots of like clean, brute beauty products out there now. So, you know, as you run out of things, start gradually replacing them with a cleaner brand. Use things like essential oils

to fragrance your home instead of all the air fresheners and that sort of thing. Yeah, they're very toxic.

Sally (33:45)
They are gross, aren't they? I really cannot, I cannot tolerate them. When my husband puts aftershave on, I'm like, God, get me out of here. Yeah, do we become more sensitive as we get older to these things because of the histamine? We become more histamine intolerant perhaps.

Louise (33:53)
Yeah.

Yes, yeah, it's something that I do often see is that people become kind of a little bit chemical sensitive as they get into their, well, sometimes it's as they get into this mid stage of life, but you know, it could also be if they've just got quite a high toxic load or if they're not detoxing very well, then their body just can't cope with the exposure to chemicals. And it's kind of one of your body's defense mechanisms is to, you know, make that smell really repellent to you so that you kind

get away from it. So yeah, you know, I think the, for me, lot of the air fresheners that people have in their homes, particularly the plug -in ones, I walk into a room where there's a plug -in, I got like an instant headache. Funny enough, I'm fine with like aftershaves and that sort of thing, possibly because they're just a more pleasant smell generally. But yeah, lot of the plug -in air fresheners and diffusers and candles, unfortunately, you know, fragranced with

Sally (34:41)
Ugh.

Louise (35:01)
you know chemicals, so we want to really avoid those as much as possible. And then the cleaning products as well. So there's again lots of clean brands out there that actually aren't very expensive and they're more widely available now, but also you can very easily make your own cleaning products with like white vinegar and baking soda and they're very effective. So that's a really simple thing.

Sally (35:30)
Do you have any tips on dishwasher tablets? Because I have realized that I cannot tolerate the sort of Finnish dishwasher tablets anymore. I hate the smell of them. Everything comes out squeaky clean, but you get a sense, you can still smell the residue, excuse me, of the product on and it just doesn't feel right. Someone said you can just put baking soda in your dishwasher, but that feels like it might be a bit too scratchy.

Louise (35:41)
Hmm.

Yeah. Dishwasher tablets are one thing that I haven't found a good alternative. I, a while ago now, I'm going to not remember this very well, but a while ago now, I remember reading something about washing up liquid in dishwasher tablets and that basically it's very, very difficult to find a good kind of eco -friendly or

Sally (36:00)
Do you use anything in particular?

So hard, isn't

Louise (36:27)
hormone friendly alternative because the things that we really need to have in there to help clean and get that grease off, you know, there aren't really like good alternatives to that. So that's one thing that I still have the finish dishwasher tablets because I've tried the eco ones and they just don't work. And then you end up having to wash things up again.

or doing like really hot washes that aren't very eco -friendly. So yeah, I've kind of given in there and just use a normal dishwasher tablet.

Sally (36:59)
Right.

I suppose it's about getting a balance, isn't it? Because if you're doing everything else, it's OK. You've got the method house cleaner, or you're using something that's a little bit better than Flash or Mr. Muscle or something like that. Then you can forego one or two things around the house that aren't perhaps like, it's the sprays, isn't it, that get into the atmosphere? At least a dishwasher tablet doesn't get into the atmosphere, I suppose.

Louise (37:31)
Yeah.

Sally (37:31)
And the laundry tablets as well, can get the laundry sheets which are pretty good. I find they're pretty good. They clean the clothes really well.

Louise (37:38)
Yeah, I use the laundry sheets as well. ones that you like rip up and put in the machine and yeah, they're not heavily fragrance, but they do leave the clothes smelling clean. and, yeah, they, they, they seem to clean very well. and then there's quite a few different, like naturally scented or more eco softeners that you can use, but equally you don't necessarily even need to use softener. so that

the laundry side of things, I think is quite easy to find a good solution and worthwhile doing as well because, you know, most normal laundry powders or detergents are very heavily fragranced. And I remember a few years ago, my partner bought some of those laundry scent pearls.

I think because his work where I was getting really smelly and chuck them in the machine and my God, this stench, like it was so overpowering. think maybe because we weren't used to it, but I just thought it was awful. It was horrible.

Sally (38:48)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Something that's just popped into my head is that we become very high maintenance, don't we, as we get older? But then are we really, or are we just trying to come back to our natural state and it's the world around us that's not really allowing that? Because you go into a supermarket and you're flooded with all the advertising and it's so easy and convenient to

really unhealthy foods and it's so much harder to get healthy foods. You know have to plan a bit more in advance and of course we can do all these things but it would just be really nice if we could rock up to Asda and you know what an organic food was the main thing there you know not these vegetables that don't really taste of anything as well it's such a shame they're so readily available and they're so cheap.

Louise (39:19)
Mmm.

Mm. Yeah.

Sally (39:44)
but they don't really taste of anything. I'm lucky I live in Brighton. I've got access to quite a lot of organic food shops near where I live. But when I lived in a little town about an hour away from Manchester, quite a years ago now, it was so hard. I had to drive like an hour to get to what's called Unicorn. And it was a really amazing organic food shop. But...

Yeah, it's that sort of accessibility which is really hard for people, especially if you've got kids, especially if you're working full time. I just wish the world would make it easier for us. But then, having said that, when we sort of flip over and become and we feel better because we've done the work and we

Louise (40:17)
Mm.

Sally (40:35)
put, you know, we've got a say, for example, somebody's gone to you, they've followed the protocol, their gut's healthy, their liver's healthy, their blood sugar's really stable, everything's functioning optimally, low inflammation levels, they're going to feel much more able to fight the world, you know, to put the things in place, to put the plans in place, to think ahead, to do what you need to do, to plan the meals and stuff.

Louise (40:58)
Mm.

Definitely. I think it does feel hard at first because any change is hard and you're trying to do that change at a time when, you know, it kind of feels like your body isn't cooperating and you're probably more fatigued and anxious and all these things, which is why it's so important to do it in a step -by -step way so that it's not overwhelming and, you know, you're working with what you're kind of physically and mentally able to cope with.

and building on that gradually. But yeah, you know, I think if you break it down like that, you know, it is work. It does feel like you're having to go a little bit against the grain because you're having to do things that aren't necessarily the norm, like trying to seek out organic food, if that's the thing that, you know, you need to do. But like you say, once you've done a lot of these things, it's just about forming new habits. You know, once

Once you know how to do your food shop or where to do your food shop, or you know how, where to get your cleaning products from or whatever it might be, you've already done the work and it's just a case of continuing to follow that routine or, you know, source that product, wherever it might be. Yeah, it gets so much easier. And then when you're feeling better as well, it's much easier.

one, to be motivated to do that because you can see the benefits, but also just having more energy makes everything easier.

Sally (42:34)
Right. Yeah, exactly. can fight the world a bit easier, can't you? I like what you said about small steps. I've got another podcast. I talked to a clinical, chartered psychologist about behavior change and she talks about small steps as well. And someone else, Camille, who's a behavior change specialist spoke about, don't, we only change when we feel good about those changes that we're making. If we feel really bad about those changes or they feel really difficult or cumbersome.

Louise (42:36)
Mmm.

Sally (43:03)
or just not, we're not able to integrate them, then we're not going to make those changes. So a lot of it is easy stuff like, for example, seed oils. I've been coming across a lot about seed oils and how really bad for us they are like very, very inflammatory. So if you're cooking with seed oils, replace it with extra virgin olive oil or coconut oil or something that's really stable. Do you have any

Can you actually explain a little bit about seed oils, more about seed oils and why they're not great for us, especially during menopause? I know they're not great for the brain and they're quite inflammatory, but also they're hidden in so many products, aren't they?

Louise (43:49)
Yeah, a lot of processed foods and ultra processed foods have a lot of seed oils in there and it's partly because they're cheap and they almost act as like a preservative in a way as well. But part of the reason why they're not very helpful for us is because they're very high in omega -6s and omega -6s aren't bad for us, but we just have way too much of them in the diet.

And it's really important that we have a healthy balance of, or a good ratio of omega -6 to omega -3. And unfortunately omega -3 is something that most of us don't have enough of in diet. So that combination of that lack of omega -3 and way too much omega -6 is very inflammatory. So an easy way to bring down that omega -6 load is by avoiding seed oils and swapping them.

like say for the ones that are richer in the mono unsaturated fats and the potentially saturated fats as well. And then boosting our intake of the Omega -3s by eating more wild oily fish and certain nuts and seeds, flax seeds, walnuts, great sauces as well. And then by doing...

a bit of both of those things, you'll help to bring them back into alignment, which is, it's very anti -inflammatory. So, but yeah, seed oils, they are, they sneak into a lot of things and, you know, I think it's easy to be deceived because they have very clever marketing. You know, a lot of the, even just the bottles of seed oils have, you know, graphics on them that really make you think that they're heart healthy and that sort of thing.

but also a lot of products that they're in are quote unquote health products. you know, particularly vegan products as well. So we can feel like we're eating healthy options, but really they're just very clever marketing and they're a bit greenwashed or a bit health washed. and they are essentially ultra processed. So we have to be very cautious when we're looking at a health product and actually flip it over, look at the ingredients.

Sally (45:42)
Yes.

have products.

Greenwashed.

Louise (46:11)
look for seed oils but also just look at the overall ingredients list because if there's more than like five ingredients in there it's probably processed.

Sally (46:21)
Right, yeah. And there's so much about ultra processed foods at the moment. If you're listening to any podcasts about ultra processed foods, can get a sense that they really are not good for us and a very high contributing factor towards mortality as well. Yeah.

Louise (46:35)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. It's something that I'm talking about a lot at the moment is with people is, know, again, when you're trying to eat better, one of the good places to start is by just starting to reduce your intake of ultra processed foods. And I think a lot of people think that they aren't eating a processed diet because of how good the marketing is. So you've got to kind of like take a magnifying glass to what you're eating and the choices you're making, just make sure that you're not having loads.

And it's not about avoiding them completely because that's actually really difficult, but reducing down the proportion of your diet that is processed or ultra processed is very impactful.

Sally (47:17)
Yeah, for example, if you're getting Kentucky Fried Chicken, I would assume that that is fried in a really cheap seed oil. But if you're going to Five Guys and having their chips, they're fried in peanut oil, I believe, which I think is better. Am I right in thinking

Louise (47:33)
I believe so. I mean, it's still not great, but it's not a seed oil, so it's better. A good example, I think that's in the book Ultra Processed People, is about pizza. And, you know, if you go to like a pizza place, a, not like a Domino's, but like more of an independent pizza place, the ingredients that are in a pizza are actually

Sally (47:40)
Still inflammatory, I guess.

Louise (48:03)
very basic, you've got like flour and water in the dough pretty much, and then tomato and cheese on top. It's probably not very processed, but if you go down the road and you pop into the supermarket and pick up a pizza from the fridge section, then it's got loads of preservatives in, it's probably gonna have quite a few seed oils in there as well, and it's considerably worse for you. So it's not necessarily about the food itself, but just the way that it's been made.

Sally (48:33)
Right of course and it's that convenience because we all need convenience now don't we as well. What about things like hemp oil like unrefined seed oils that look very healthy when you go to the health food shop or you go to the health food section in Asda or whatever. What are they like for us? Are they better? Okay.

Louise (48:55)
Yeah, absolutely. They're definitely healthy things to include in the diet, as far as my understanding anyway. But we don't want to cook with them. We want to make sure we don't cook with them because they are not made for cooking. We have a very low smoke point, so they will be damaged at very, very low temperatures. So they're best for using with salad dressings or just like drizzling over things.

Sally (49:04)
Mm -hmm. Okay.

So we're talking about, when we're talking about the stuff that's not good for us, we're talking about highly processed, refined sunflower oil. What else? Rape seed oil.

Louise (49:32)
Brape seed oil.

vegetable oil.

Sally (49:40)
stuff like that yeah okay not the refined stuff in the dark in the dark so the darker the oil the less refined is that right

Louise (49:48)
Yeah, yeah, essentially in like, you know, a really good quality olive oil will often have bits in because it's, you know, fresh from the press. And, know, we don't necessarily want to cook at high temperatures with those either because those bits in the oil can burn. And in, you know, for high temperature cooking, we're probably best off using things like coconut oil, avocado oil, ghee, butter, those sorts of things.

Sally (49:55)
yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, brilliant. Thank you for this. This has been amazing. I didn't know we were going to go off on all these different tangents, but I think that's been brilliant. Just quickly, how did you get into all this stuff, Louise?

Louise (50:29)
so when, when I started practicing, which is back in 2012 now, I was working with everyone and anyone, any, any sorts of problems. And I had a lot of women coming to me who wanted to lose weight and a lot of the people that came to me for other things like. Exmo or IBS or depression or whatever it might be. Most of them also wanted to lose weight as well.

So I felt like I kind of naturally built up a lot of knowledge around weight loss. But what I noticed was that the people that came to me for the other things actually did the best when it came to weight loss. Whereas the people that came to me just for weight loss, they didn't do so well, particularly the women who were struggling with perimenopause and menopause. And I really wanted to understand why

women were struggling in this life phase and why weight loss seemed like so impossible. I think, you know, at that time I noticed that my clients that were focusing more on their health, know, improving their gut health, improving their skin health and that sort of thing, they were doing better with the weight loss. And it's because they're working on actually optimizing their health rather than just managing their portion sizes or, you know, come up with creative ways to eat less and do more exercise.

so I ended up, going into more the weight loss around menopause side of things, partly because I was so frustrated that my clients weren't getting good results and I really want to understand why and get them better results. And, know, that's really developed my whole philosophy around weight loss for anyone at any age, but particularly at this life stage, you know, it's for me now all about optimizing health and getting to the root.

cause of it so that your body becomes better at burning fat and your metabolism works better, you know, rather than just trying to starve you to weight loss because it just doesn't work.

Sally (52:35)
No, that's right. And it's, it's really lovely that you, know, cause your marketing is all around shedding way, you know, lose weight basically. So people come to you because that's the main problem, but then you educate them and you teach them that it's actually, if we can just put the weight to one side and get to all these other symptoms and really heal your body from the inside, then the weight will just kind

do what the weight needs to do. We're not focused on the weight. Funnily enough, I've actually, since not trying, I've lost a stone. And it's because I've been much more focused on balancing my blood sugar, managing my stress, improving my muscle mass. Yeah, and doing all of those things that you said at the beginning. What would you say? Muscle mass, insulin resistance, and resilience to stress. And

Louise (53:11)
Wow.

Sally (53:30)
personal trainer looked at me and she said, your body's changed. went, I know. And she said, have you weighed yourself? I said, no, I haven't. Anyway, I got home that day and I weighed myself and I was like, I cannot believe it, but I've lost a stone. I haven't even been focused on my weight. So there you go.

Louise (53:42)
Wow, that's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And this is what I see with my clients all the time. You know, they come in really focused on their weight and they go for a bit of a transformation where I think because of the method that we're taking, where, you know, we're kind of coming at it a bit backwards to the traditional approach where, you know, we're not focusing on calories. We're not focused on portion control. We're focusing on optimizing health and very much making clear that that takes time.

It takes time for your hormones to respond to the changes you're making. It takes time for your gut to heal. So we very much encourage people to put the scales to one side if they can and focus on their health and mindset. And so for most women, come into it wanting to lose weight, but they come out of it feeling like, yes, they've lost weight, but actually they don't even care about that so much now because they feel better. They're sleeping better.

They feel like they're aging healthily and they just feel like their body is working properly. You know, they're able to keep up with the kids or whatever it is that, you know, is the big motivator. And so often it goes so much deeper than losing weight, doesn't it? It's often more about health, more about being able to just function in daily life and feeling confident in your skin as well.

Sally (55:03)
Yeah, absolutely. And just feeling comfortable in your body, especially in the heat. It can be quite challenging to exist in a larger body when it's hot. Because your skin rubs with other parts of your skin. And of course, there's absolutely nothing aesthetically wrong with being in a larger body. We exist the way that we exist. And all bodies are beautiful, no matter what size.

But I think it's about, I'm about pro -choice. If somebody wants to lose weight or somebody really is not happy with the way that they look for whatever reason and they want to seek out a solution, then absolutely crack on. But equally, if you don't want to and you're happy and you feel comfortable and you love your body the way that it is and, you know, crack on, be who you are, do what's right for you. Absolutely. And something

that really struck me about this weight loss period that I've had is the time it took. You know, when I've been like, I've got to lose weight, I've got to lose weight, and I lose weight and it's like two, three weeks and I've lost half a stone, it comes back so quickly. But with not focusing on it and just sort of letting that go, I've realized, wow, I've lost weight, but it's actually taken me like six months to do that.

Louise (56:13)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sally (56:28)
So let's just forget about it, because obviously the more you look at something, the longer it takes, right? It's like watching paint dry. It's going to take forever. It's better just to get empowered with the knowledge, go and see someone like you that has the knowledge, that can do all the testing as well to really find out what's going on for you. And then go in with the specifics, but also allow yourself to take the time.

Louise (56:35)
Yeah.

Sally (56:54)
So how do you work with people? Is it a one -to -one? Is it a group program? What have you got going on?

Louise (57:00)
So my program, the Nourish Method is kind of like a fusion program where we do one -to -one, but we also have some group elements as well so that we can provide the maximum amount of support possible. I think there's benefits to all of those elements. So it's really great to be able to have a combination of them. The one -to -one allows us to get, you know, obviously very specific to the individual's needs and then, you know, the group elements, which are like a...

a private forum, much like a Facebook group. And then also weekly zoom sessions where anyone can drop in means that you're not going a month without getting some support if you've got any problems or obstacles or need a pep talk or anything like that. So it is a fusion. And what we do is we run tests initially to find out what's going on. What imbalances do you have? Do you have a high toxic load? Does your gut need support?

Do you need more nutrients, inflammation, all of these things? And then we put together an action plan based on that and your overall health and medical history and all these things. And then basically take you through phases, take you through steps to work on all of these things that come up. But also alongside that, there are kind of like self -study modules that you can do to make sure that you

the foundations in place. And, you know, what I always felt like one of the drawbacks of working with people one -to -one rather than like for a structured program is that it's very easy to miss areas because you're so hyper -focused on the bits that are the top priority. So what works well in my program is that we do that in the one -to -one, we hyper -focus on the top priorities, but then you've also got these

these other bits that you can work through in your own time, which makes sure that we're covering every, every area, make sure no stone is

Sally (59:05)
Love that. Brilliant. So if people want to access that, is it an evergreen course or an evergreen program or do you only have intake certain time of the year?

Louise (59:14)
Yeah, people can join any time. And what we do is for anyone who's interested in joining, we do a free discovery call so that we can make sure that it is actually going to be the right thing for you and that we're a good fit to work together and that sort of thing.

Sally (59:31)
Perfect, brilliant. So your website is...

Louise (59:34)
louisdickbeanutrition .com

Sally (59:38)
Brilliant. And where are you most active on social media,

Louise (59:41)
Definitely Instagram and that's at Louise Digby Nutrition.

Sally (59:46)
Perfect. Well, thank you. Honestly, I've really enjoyed talking to you. It's definitely given me a bit of a kickstart. know I'm going to be working on my liver function, I think a little bit more, try and get rid of these spots and also my stress levels. I need to bring my stress levels down a bit more, maybe do a little bit more yoga nidra, maybe do some more restorative yoga and hit the gym a bit less hard and really kind of

just rain my willpower in little bit, I think. That's where I'm at at the moment. I have, yeah, rain it in slightly, save it for something else. So brilliant, I'm gonna add some lemon juice, I think, to my water and that chlorophyll and maybe some more bitter salads and things like that, radicchio and rocket and stuff to help with the liver. So yeah, I feel like I've had a lovely one -to -one with you. So thank you so much.

Louise (1:00:18)
Yeah, dial it back slightly.

Mmm.

You're very welcome.

Sally (1:00:41)
And I really hope our listeners have got something from this. Do let us know what your biggest takeaways were. And Louise, thank you so much. Have a really wonderful day.

Louise (1:00:51)
Aw, thank you so much for having me.