165 The Experts in Menopause Weight Loss with Rob Birkhead

Join me with Rob Birkhead, co-founder of Trinity Transformation, as he shares his journey of becoming an expert in menopause weight loss. We talk about how the body changes during menopause and why traditional weight loss techniques become less effective. We talk about the importance of low impact strength training vs cardio and the role of nutrition, including the need for a high protein breakfast and the potential benefits of intermittent fasting. If you’re curious about how to shed those stubborn pounds with a bit more ease than you might have thought, this episode is for you.

Rob’s Links:

TrinityTransformation - https://trinitytransformation.co.uk/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/trinitytransformations/

Sally's Links:

[Free] Relaxation Hypnosis Recording:  https://bit.ly/relaxationwithsally

How to Create Phenomenal Self Esteem [£47]:  https://www.sallygarozzo.com/selfesteem

Menopause Wellbeing Practitioner [£127] https://www.sallygarozzo.com/meno

Cold Water Therapy Practitioner [£127] https://www.sallygarozzo.com/cold

Transformational 30 Day Rewire (Includes RTT) [£447]: https://www.sallygarozzo.com/rapid-transformational-therapist

Transformational Trauma Informed Coaching [From £197]:  https://www.sallygarozzo.com/transformational-coaching 

Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/sallygarozzomindmentor

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sallygarozzo/

Send me a voice clip via What’s App - https://wa.me/message/FTARBMO7CRLEL1 

Transcript

Sally (00:00.936)
So my guest today is Rob Birkhead. Rob is one of the co -founders of Trinity Transformation, which is an online private coaching platform helping women going through the menopause to lose weight, feel better and improve their mindsets. Rob and his co -founder Ben are both experts in menopause weight loss, having worked with over 6 ,500 clients over the past decade, both in the UK and internationally.

I'm so thrilled that you could join us today, Rob. How are you doing over there in fleet?

Rob Birkhead (00:35.31)
Yeah, very good, thank you. I'm excited to be here.

Sally (00:38.76)
brilliant. I honestly really excited to talk to you. And first of all, a big shout out to the lovely Claire Ryan, who recommended you to all of us. So thank you, Claire, because I know that my audience are really going to benefit so much from your wisdom. So I think the question on everyone's lips is how do two guys in their 30s get to end up being experts in the menopause? I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm so excited to have you as allies.

But really, how do you get to be in this world?

Rob Birkhead (01:13.678)
smiling because it's the question we get asked all the time for obvious reasons. It wasn't like a calculated thing. It was like a, like you said, it's been 10 years since we've been just over 10 years now coaching people online. And we started helping anyone and everyone. And this was back in 2014. And we just saw this opportunity online where people were starting to do fitness coaching online. We were both engineers.

Sally (01:17.576)
Yeah, I'll bet.

Rob Birkhead (01:41.614)
at that point doing a master's engineering at Bath Uni, but it got really into fitness. And we much preferred going to the gym and studying nutrition and actually doing our degree. So we started this online blog and we were just helping anyone and everyone. And then we started putting together these really basic programs and people were really enjoying it. But we wanted to turn that into something. So I left university, went into an engineering job. So did Ben. And

Sally (01:47.88)
Wow.

Rob Birkhead (02:11.854)
Within a few weeks, I was like, this is not for me. Like going to, I'd already done a placement year. I knew what it was going to be like going into this office, doing nine to five. Like it just didn't really suit me. And I much preferred this online thing that we'd started, but we weren't really making any money. So Ben made me this offer, which was to pay me half his salary. Cause he had a year's contract and I didn't to give this a go and turn it into a business and move in with him in the Midlands. So long story short, I.

Quit my job at McLaren, the Formula One team after six weeks.

Sally (02:41.16)
No way! my god, some people would think that's a dream job!

Rob Birkhead (02:45.358)
Yeah, it seems a bit entitled, but it just wasn't for me. Like, I think it is a great job for a lot of people, but I'm much more passionate about health and fitness than I am about engineering. And I kind of learned that through my degree. And I saw these two options and I thought, you know, I was 24, I didn't have a lot to lose. I thought, let's give it a go. So,

Sally (03:04.36)
Yeah. And I suppose if you're an engineer, you've got that engineering mindset, haven't you, as well? You can kind of engineer anything. It's all about planning and design and project management, I suppose.

Rob Birkhead (03:18.094)
Yeah, a lot of people describe engineering as problem solving. So I love solving any sort of problem and trying to come up with clever, simple solutions to it. So that's what we kind of then started to do in the fitness industry to try and make things really simple for people. But we were coaching everyone and anyone, and it was, it's very hard to stand out. And it's also very hard to help a diverse range of people. So we had clients who were like 65 year old females, and then we had like a 20 year old male, what they wanted and how they wanted to be talked to. And everything was so different.

And we had a bit of advice. We didn't have a clue what we're doing business -wise. Like we had no money for a very long time, but we were helping loads and loads of people. And we, we had some advice to just specialize in men or women at one point from a mentor. And they said, look, you're, you're just not going to stand out if you're trying to help like the 20 year old guy and the 60 year old woman and everyone in between, in this crowded space. And you're also not going to be able to do a great service because you're going to have to do something very generic.

So we then specialised in helping women because the men we had on board were not very engaged. They just wanted to kind of be told what to do and disappear and they never asked questions, you know what men are like. So we thought, right, we'll specialise in the one we're getting better results for. And that's kind of how it then progressed. We did a few years of just helping women again, all ages, but it started to kind of diverge around sort of mid 30s to sort of 55, 60 at that point. But the clients who were...

in their forties and fifties was saying, we're getting results that are amazing that I haven't been able to get doing the thing that the time like Joe Wicks or these other things, you know, like hit training, spinning, all these, these stuff that used to work for them. They said it wasn't working, but then they came to us and they got great results and we didn't really know why at the time. So then, cause you don't get trained in any of this when you do. So I've done over this, this, this time I've done lots of personal training and qualifications and things like that to get my experience up, but they don't teach you anything about menopause.

So I then dove into it. I'll teach you nothing. And I met, even doctors don't get taught much about menopause. Yeah. It affects every woman. So it's kind of crazy that there's no training around it and there's still not much, but I kind of just dove headfirst into then figuring out why this was again, problem solving thing, reading all the studies and research and books around this area. And it was a mate, like it blew my mind how much the body obviously changes, which you will know if you're going through it.

Sally (05:11.24)
Wow, that is madness.

Rob Birkhead (05:40.046)
but how much the approach needs to change. And so that's when we decide, okay, let's just specialize in this area. Cause we're already getting good results and now we start to see why, and then we can make it even better. And in 2019, when we did this, no, no one was really specializing in this area. And now it's quite a big thing. A lot of people are menopause specialists in different things. And it's less of a taboo subject, but back then, and there really wasn't a lot. So it really took off at that point.

Sally (05:40.072)
Yeah.

Sally (05:50.76)
Yeah.

Rob Birkhead (06:05.966)
There is a lot more in that story where we like nearly lost the entire business about six, seven years ago. you know, we were messed up. We didn't know what we're doing again, but since 2019 on we've now grown, you know, significantly and we've have got 565 active, like one to one clients at the moment, the team of 15, helping them. And, yeah, we're still really, really passionate about it. And it's strange because it's obviously not something I've gone through myself.

But we see the impact we had on the clients and realizing it's still really annoys me how much bad information there is out there for around menopause and how many trainers just say, look, it's just the same. Like I was speaking to some successful gym owners that I know recently. And the guy was saying, look, I know you guys are in the menopause space, but it's just the set. It's just move more, eat less. Isn't it? And I was like, it's just not that simple. And they couldn't, people just still like trainers and people in the fitness space still don't acknowledge it's different. And that's, I think really unfair on people. So then.

that's, you probably hear that's where my kind of passion comes from because I, I believe it is different. The research will show it's different. You need to act differently. And if you do, you can set yourself up to be fit and healthy for the next 20, 30, 40 years. But if you don't, it's like a critical time. If you do the wrong things, you could actually set yourself back and make it pretty difficult to, to, to kind of, you know, you couldn't, you can accelerate your aging process basically. So if you're in your 60s, 70s, you

you could end up falling, breaking a bone, the mortality rates really high if that happens. One in two women who fall and break something die within a year due to osteoporosis. So yeah, I'm very passionate about it. That's the long story's sort of short, medium length at least. Yeah.

Sally (07:37.288)
Yeah.

Sally (07:41.064)
Yeah.

Sally (07:47.784)
Medium length story. No, I think that's lovely. Yeah, I think it's brilliant and so indicative. I think, you know, when you were saying at the beginning of how some men were like, we just want to be told what to do. And they weren't actually getting the results, but the women wanted to get involved with their own healing journey, really, or their own like fitness journey. And they were asking questions, they were being inquisitive, they were in a way almost forcing you to.

Rob Birkhead (08:06.158)
Mm -hmm.

Sally (08:15.784)
go away and do the research and then come back to them and teach them what to do. And that's what I love about women going through the menopause is we're bloody noisy and we don't take no for an answer. And we're always poking and prodding and wanting to get to the bottom of things. And that really evokes learning, doesn't it? Which is why we can all win from that. The people who are training us, people who are working with us.

Rob Birkhead (08:36.43)
Mm.

Sally (08:43.208)
We're all winning really if we're open to it. I think it's when you become closed off and rigid and think, you know, know it all. You don't actually grow. So I think that's great. Question for you then, how is the body changing around menopause physiologically and why then do those traditional weight loss techniques become less effective? Like what?

What are the traditional weight loss techniques? I think you alluded to it earlier, wasn't it? Just lower your calories and move more. But what's happening within the menopausal body that means we have to shift that around.

Rob Birkhead (09:26.126)
Yeah, this is a great question. And this is the crux of all of it. If you can understand this, which is not that complex, like I try and take everything complex and make it simple. If you can understand this, you then know exactly what to do. And it's the same from perimenopause for the rest of your life. So what starts to happen is during perimenopause and this, this, the age this happens is different for everyone. So we've got people in their late thirties that are going through perimenopause. Some people, you know, it doesn't happen till very late forties or maybe even fifties.

The average age for menopause is 51. I'm sure you listeners all know this in the Western world. That means a year where you go a year without a period for 12 consecutive months. A lot of people don't know when that's happened though, because they're on birth control or have a coil fitted, things like this. But what starts to happen is estrogen levels start to drop. They actually sort of fluctuate and drop and then progesterone levels are also starting to drop. And during perimenopause, they're fluctuating and dropping and then menopause,

onwards, they're then low for the rest of your life, not zero, but they're a lot lower. And there's three different forms of estrogen, but we'll just talk about it as each one to keep it simple.

What estrin does is it helps to regulate a lot of things. It helps to regulate cortisol, which is the main stress hormone, helps to maintain muscle mass and bone density. So it's a bit like the female testosterone. It's an easy way to think about it. The expert, the US expert, Stacey Sims, you may have heard her, she's really, really good. She's got a great book called Next Level, refers to estrin as like the male testosterone. So when it drops, what ends up happening is,

You don't maintain muscle so well. You don't maintain bone density so well. It can affect things like mood. So when men's testosterone drops, they start to lose muscle. They start to have lower mood, lower self -esteem and estrogen can have a lot of these effects. But the other critical thing is this effect on cortisol, the stress hormone. So what tends to happen is the body doesn't deal with stress quite so well. And it's a time of life, which is already very stressful. Like the body's changing a lot. Most of our clients are also.

Rob Birkhead (11:33.902)
I think it just happens to be that way. You know, they're towards the top of their career at this point. They've been in their career for 20 years, they've been working really hard. So they're in a very stressful job that might be reporting to directors. They might be running the business. They might be running their own business. But, you know, pushing in that area might have started a new business. And then they're often also caring for aging parents or maybe even losing their parents, which is obviously really difficult to go through at the same time as all these changes.

Sally (11:38.28)
you

Rob Birkhead (12:02.222)
Maybe they've got children that are grown up as well, but they're still all younger, just depends again. And they're dealing with all of this. And in this sandwich generation, parents, children, work, everything, and the body's ability to deal with stress is a lot less due to the lower estrogen. And what happens if you end up with chronically high cortisol, the main stress hormone, is it leads to three additional side effects that we call the weight gain triangle. So leptin resistance, insulin resistance, and thyroid deregulation.

So leptin is a satiety hormone, tells your body you're full or not. And if you have leptin resistance, you don't feel full. You basically will have lots of cravings and crave comfort food. Insulin is, to put it simply, it's kind of like a storage hormone. So if you have insulin resistance, you're more likely to store fat around the middle and you're more likely to store carbs as fat as well. So this is obviously not going to help either. And then thyroid is the gland in your...

neck that controls your metabolism. So if it's deregulated, your metabolism slows down. So these are all things that are going to make it harder to lose weight and easier to gain it. And that happens if you have these chronically high stress levels. So what you really need to do is regulate stress as best you can. And obviously through mindset work, which I know you do a lot of, we do that. So Trinity is three things, exercise, nutrition, and mindset, but also you need to do it through your exercise and nutrition.

And most of the classical forms of exercise and nutrition, like the classic dieting things that people do, the intense gym classes running when they're maybe not a natural runner or, you know, even if you are, it can be very stressful if you're pushing yourself all the time, spinning, hit body pump, crossfit, all of these things are really stressful for the body. And then a lot of people pair that with like a starvation diet, which your body also perceives as a source of stress. Cause again, we've not really evolved from 10 ,000 years ago where we, we lived in caves and you know, we had to be.

alert to starvation and go and fix it and not, you know, there was actually a risk of starving to death where there isn't really now food is so plentiful and cheap. It's not really a risk, but if you starve yourself, your body will still react in the same way. So you basically want to avoid these things that are really stressful for the body. And this is hard because most of the people we work with have kind of evolved to think, you know, they're very hardworking people. They just think. Let's, let's smash it. Now summer's coming. I'm going to go back to the, you know, the 800 calories a day or the keto or.

Rob Birkhead (14:20.59)
the gym classes and we've, we had a lady who was doing two gym classes a day. yeah, so a lot, isn't it? I don't think I could do that. She was doing one before work and one after work. And she gained two stone doing this and she was trying to style herself as well. And then when she joined us, she lost three stone by doing three workouts a week, but we do much lower stress exercise. So the key is to kind of avoid overstressing the body and then.

Sally (14:25.608)
Oof.

Where'd you get the time for two gym classes a day? poor love. my God. Wow.

Sally (14:46.056)
Yeah.

Rob Birkhead (14:51.406)
also counteract that kind of lower estrogen by doing other things to maintain muscle, to maintain your mood and things like that. And you just can't get away with hammering the body into submission anymore.

Sally (15:03.56)
So, so interesting. It really, really is. So it's a balance, isn't it, between obviously we have to do exercise and we have to eat sensibly, but it's not taking it to the absolute extreme that would have worked in our twenties and thirties. In our forties and fifties, it's about balance, it's about moderation, it's about living rhythmically, it's about doing all of these things, but doing them with a lighter mentality, I guess. And...

Rob Birkhead (15:12.43)
Mm -hmm.

Sally (15:33.096)
Actually, I would say one of the first things to do is really look at like, where are you getting your oxytocin? Because oxytocin will really dampen down the cortisol. If you've got high cortisol, your oxytocin is probably really low. So looking at where you can really improve that. And that comes from community, it comes from feeling safe, it comes from like, feeling bonded and connected, like having lots of cuddles, making sure that you're getting lots of human contact.

Rob Birkhead (15:44.27)
Yeah.

Sally (16:02.216)
maybe stroking pets, having ma... Yeah, yeah, definitely. So lots and lots of cuddles to get that cortisol right down. And if you don't have a dog or if you don't have a partner, actually I find cuddling friends really nice, but also cuddling, get a bolster or a cuddle pillow and cuddle that when you're on the sofa. It sort of mimics, or I have a teddy bear when my husband's away and I cuddle that. And it does mimic.

Rob Birkhead (16:04.526)
Yeah, cuddling the dog is a classic, isn't it?

Sally (16:32.04)
a real human and I can feel the oxytocin being delivered. So it does work.

Rob Birkhead (16:37.742)
Definitely. Like I told you before we started recording, I have this crazy working cocker spaniel Ted and some nights he loves to like cuddle up on the sofa. He's a mad dog in the day, but he does sleep at night. Does get three walks a day. Not all by me. And, but I will then like spoon him on the sofa. He just loves hugs. So, and I just feel so much karma. Like if I've had a really stressful day working, you know, being pretty busy and then I sometimes struggle to switch off in the evenings. If I then start like put my phone down, hug the dog.

he loves it. And then yeah, immediately I feel like karma and obviously you can feel those hormones shifting.

Sally (17:14.12)
Yeah, which regulates your appetite, as you say. It will regulate your metabolism. It will help with insulin resistance. So do you not recommend fasting in your world? Because there's so much about fasting and the benefits of fasting. What do you think?

Rob Birkhead (17:29.07)
Yeah. So I have a, I don't have a really strong opinion on this. I know it's kind of a bit like religion sometimes. You'll probably get this throughout this episode, but I try and just give a reasonable, logical summary on everything rather than like, I don't believe in it. I do. I think some people can, it can work well for some people less. So I think round menopause, it generally doesn't work so well for most people. an interesting thing that all of our coaches have noticed. So we have six coaches that work for us and.

We have a team meeting every week and we raise different things that we notice in the community. We noticed that all of our clients who had the most weight they wanted to lose and struggled the most with it were people who were meal skippers, especially breakfast skippers. So we noticed that correlation with our clients. And again, it comes down to managing the stress on the body. You can kind of force it into submission when you're younger.

But for a lot of people kind of skipping that meal ends up with really low blood sugar, ends up with the body almost being like starving. And then a lot of people blow out the later in the day, even though they started off really, really well. it doesn't always happen. Some people can do a good job with it, but I think a lot of the time you just want to keep everything nice and steady. So if you want to have steady blood sugar levels throughout the day and a healthy breakfast, that's the thing most people are getting wrong. And that, that means building it around protein first around menopause, which a lot of people are not doing.

Sally (18:34.12)
Yeah.

Rob Birkhead (18:54.126)
they think healthy breakfast looks like, you know, like cereal with a load of berries or fruit with a, you know, some jam, on toast, you know, brown thread, all of that's just pure carbs. And it's, it's, you know, with that insulin resistance and things like that, it's not going to work well. You actually want to have a high protein breakfast and that doesn't have to be chicken. That sounds really miserable. I'll try to have a lot of nicer things that have things like Greek yogurt, with berries, the Greek yogurt is a much better source of protein than a lot of yogurt. they'll have a smoothie.

Sally (19:07.848)
Yeah, chicken for breakfast. That's what we want. Chicken for breakfast.

Rob Birkhead (19:23.182)
with protein powder in it, there's lots of healthy ones. they'll have eggs or smoked salmon. So it doesn't have to be weird. I have, I have back in the day eating fish for breakfast. I remember that job at McLaren I had before leaving. a guy was horrified cause I ate white fish and rice, but that was back in my sort of more bodybuilding days. I would never do that now. I just thought that's what you had to do. You really don't have to do anything miserable like that to see good results. But I think, I think just coming back to fasting, like.

It can work for some people. It's not the be all and end all, but one thing I do think is a great takeaway from fasting is actually having some sort of eating window because there are potentially benefits to fasting in terms of longevity. There's not great research on it yet, but there's potentially good benefits to fasting. And you do want periods of time where your blood sugar does come lower. Like if your blood sugar is high all the time, that's basically what causes diabetes. It's obviously really not good for the body. It's supposed to have ups and downs. We're supposed to eat and then...

let our system rest and digest, not just graze all day. So I think three meals is what tends to work best. It's not rocket science, breakfast, lunch and dinner. If you don't really like eating breakfast, push it back a bit later or have a very small one, but I still would recommend it. Maybe a snack right in between, definitely the afternoon people struggle. So I'd probably have a mid afternoon snack if your lunch is at one and your dinner's at seven. That's quite a long gap. And

that can actually lead to blowing out in the evening. So a mid afternoon healthy snack, but I would have a cut off in the evening because that's when most of the unhealthy eating happens for a lot of people. So when you finish dinner, you could, if you really want a dessert, there's lots of different things you can have that are healthier or even slightly less healthy, but small, you know, just have that with your dinner actually means your body will deal with the sugar if it has sugar in it better, but just stop then. So it's like,

Sally (21:10.088)
Yeah.

Rob Birkhead (21:11.758)
seven, eight o 'clock, you need to stop eating. And then that usually gives you about 12 hours, which is still a long period of time. It's not that different to the 16 eight fasting that a lot of people do anyway. And we tend to see the best results in people who have three meals a day, one or two snacks, and then rest in between. It's when people are grazing and having like, you know, biscuit with the tea and tea with milk in and, you know, all afternoon that things are coming in, keeping the blood sugar high. That's really, really not good for the body.

Sally (21:21.544)
Yeah.

Rob Birkhead (21:39.47)
So you want to just make sure you're having those meals, which are solid meals. A lot of people we see that struggle are kind of trying to cut back on all the meals, but then they're having all of these really unhealthy snacks in between. And they're actually would do a lot better having bigger meals and filling themselves up. And then they would eat a lot less in between. So a lot of the time it's like re -educating people on healthy eating practices, because diets have taught people such unhealthy habits that we're kind of unpicking all of those.

Sally (22:05.224)
Yes, I see what you're saying. So have ring fence your meal. So it's like your meal should have a beginning, middle and an end point. And then once that end point is, and it needs to be substantial enough so that you can go four or five hours outside of that without eating to give your blood sugar and your stress hormones actually a chance to just settle down, everything settled down. I think the trouble is in this culture, I think.

so many of us are afraid of hunger and we try and create these behaviors to avoid feeling the discomfort of hunger. And I know when I was practicing fasting a little while back, I think I did fasting from like January to April, but actually the protein powder that I was using to help me fast gave me such bad...

Rob Birkhead (22:35.95)
Hmm.

Sally (22:59.816)
blown up swollen lips, I had a really bad, what do you call it, histamine reaction to it over time that I had to stop and I had to revisit everything. So all of these things are a bit faddy. I was quite proud of myself for getting into it because typically my adrenals tend to be overactive and then underactive. You go through that boom and bust cycle. So fasting wouldn't necessarily suit someone that has adrenal problems.

Rob Birkhead (23:01.71)
wow.

Rob Birkhead (23:06.35)
Mm -hmm.

Sally (23:29.032)
And I found that I had to really back my way into fasting very, very slowly. It took me ages to be able to not have breakfast. I was having a protein shake about 10 o 'clock with the bone broth one, and then that would keep me going until lunchtime. And I really got into a pattern with that. But I do think every front has a back. Every positive has a negative with these things, unless it's something that we are naturally supposed to be doing.

Rob Birkhead (23:42.126)
Hmm.

Sally (23:57.608)
There's always going to be a payoff with these things and I'm not sure how sustainable they are, especially if you're using a crutch, like a protein powder. Can you really have something like that over and over again, every single day for a year, for two years, without it having a negative consequence, you know, because it's not natural, is it? It's processed at the end of the day, whether it's a pure bone broth protein powder or whether it's one that's got loads and loads of ingredients in, it's still processed.

it's been micronized or whatever the hell, you know, it's been whizzed up to make it really, really fine. It's still processed and there's a lot of histamine in that product. So yeah, I have started going back to eating breakfast now and I just want to share this because I think my listeners will find this funny. I'm having celery, a celery stick covered in Himalayan sea salt with peanut butter. And I absolutely love it. It's really crunchy.

Rob Birkhead (24:28.558)
I'm sorry.

Rob Birkhead (24:45.934)
Right.

Rob Birkhead (24:52.398)
Yeah.

Sally (24:55.304)
and it helps me like discharge any stress through chewing. It tastes really nice. It's really good for me. And then I might slice up an apple and have apple and peanut butter as well. I hope that's got the Rob Burkhead approval.

Rob Birkhead (25:10.958)
I would add some protein still, bit more protein. Peanut butter. Yeah. So peanut butter is often marketed as having a lot of protein, but it's not that high in protein. It's quite high in fat. I do have peanut butter in the morning as well. I love peanut butter. but yeah, obviously celery is great. The crunch is good. I think there's a lot to be said for having something. If you struggle with hunger, there's a lot to be said for having something you, you actually chew and eat and masticate. So that's a weird word rather than.

Sally (25:13.064)
Would you? Would you?

Sally (25:19.816)
Right, okay.

Sally (25:38.28)
It's a horrible word.

Rob Birkhead (25:39.534)
It is, isn't it? It's awful. It sounds too much like other things, but there's something, there's something to be, you know, there is a lot of research that helps to fill you up more than just drinking something. I do think protein shakes just depends on the person. Like we actually have everyone cut out for food groups, but one of them is dairy for two weeks. And then we look at how they react to those. Cause I, I personally have an issue with dairy. I've just done some really good new tests from KNBO.

Sally (25:42.152)
Yeah!

Sally (25:49.96)
Right.

Rob Birkhead (26:08.014)
Charlotte Hunter is a menopause nutritionist. She works with this company that runs these tests. And they did flag that I am intolerant to, cause I thought, I thought maybe it's a placebo effect, but I'm intolerant to cow's milk and dairy and casein. So all these things in that. So it depends what you, you know, what, what you can and can't consume, but there are a lot of healthy protein powders. I think the thing that a lot of people do is they're looking at that and going, that's processed, which it is you're correct. But then.

going, you know, they're focusing on that, but then they're having a bag of, you know, minstrels on the sofa in the evening, which is so much worse. And they're focusing on this thing, but like the minstrels on the sofa and then half a bottle of wine. And actually that would be much better to resolve than the like, maybe slightly processed protein powder, which, which every, obviously if you're having a serious reaction to, you don't want to have, but for a lot of people, they are looking at these minutiae. So what I try and find is, for most people I try and find, and we do,

Sally (27:00.264)
Yeah.

Rob Birkhead (27:06.99)
you know, in Trinity, the best win -win possible where there is the smallest downside. And most of the people we work with are surprised by how much they can eat and how full they feel and surprised that they actually enjoy it, which sounds mad, but like the, so we do a different type of exercise as well, which I think we should definitely touch on at some point, because this type of exercise, it's not just lower stress, what it is, but it's the type of exercise needs to be different.

Sally (27:26.952)
Yeah, let's.

Rob Birkhead (27:34.542)
But whatever it is that we're doing, there is usually a win -win. And I think a lot of diets, people think there is obviously always a flip side. The flip side is often that you have to put some effort in. And it's often not as much as people think. And I think people have done such extreme things that they're almost expecting it has to be hard. And then they go, wait a second, this doesn't even feel that hard. Like a lot of our clients say this, like, shouldn't I be doing more workouts or like, should these calories seem too high? Like, should I eat less? And...

like no, the results are looking really, really good. This is great. And then this means we have longevity and this is something you can do for life rather than, you know, this kind of extreme thing, which you just think can't wait to get this done. Or, you know, I'm worried that I can't keep this up after six months or a year because we want people to be fit and healthy for as long as possible. People we work with want to be fit and healthy for their grandkids and to play with them for generations and go on holiday and be able to join in with everything and do activities.

I think a lot of approaches are like so short term. It's never going to mean you can do that for long. You might be able to do it for a bit and then go back again.

Sally (28:35.592)
Yeah, exactly. Exactly, exactly, I agree with you. So let's talk about the exercise then. What type of exercise do you recommend menopausal women do if they want to shift weight?

Rob Birkhead (28:50.542)
Yeah. And I think it's a monster. It's not, I don't say it's just a shift weight. That's why everyone comes to us and that is what we do, but also just to be fit and healthy for the longest period of time. cause again, a lot of these quick fixes might look good on the scales, but might make things a lot worse in the long run. So I have a pretty strong opinion on this. Anyone who's seen our social media will know we go on and on and on about it, but by far and away, the best exercises, low impact strength training. So this is lifting weights in a slow and controlled way.

You can do it from home. You don't have to go to the gym. So our clients do it from home and you can only, you need to do three or four sessions. It's like, it's really, really efficient. it's really low stress or relatively low stress, I should say on the body and low impact. Cause a lot of people have joint aches and pains as well around menopause and a lot of classes will get people doing burpees or box jumps or jump squats. And that's if you've got lower estrogen, which is a natural anti -inflammatory and a natural, joint lubricant, then.

you're typically going to have more aches and pains. So just like jumping up and down or running and pounding the pavements is going to make it worse and worse. So this form of exercise is really, really important because it regulates the stress levels, which then means the body's in a state so it can lose weight, which is great. But it also is low impact. We talked about that, but it also builds muscle. And most people don't realize one of the reasons they feel like they're aging is because they're losing muscle. And this starts to happen from age 30 onwards and

It accelerates around menopause. If you don't do the right things. We talked about estrogen being like the female testosterone to help to maintain muscle. So when estrogen drops off, you need to do something different to maintain that muscle. Now you may have maintained it totally fine before doing running and spinning and body pump, but none of all of those are basically cardio. Even the gym classes, which are using weights that almost all just cardio with weights. Like the weights, the weights are not heavy enough. Even if you're really good at body pump and you are using heavier weights.

Sally (30:37.384)
Wow.

Rob Birkhead (30:43.374)
The speed of it and the pace of it is cardio disguised as weight training, basically. So the technique is not good enough. The movements are not good enough to actually get a good muscle building response. The injury risk is also very, very high. The stress is very high. I talked about Helen, our client who did two classes a day and gained two stone. So it's similar, but it's a slow and controlled way of doing it from home. And our clients do 30 to 40 minutes, three times a week, and it's really efficient.

Like the analogy we always use is say it's like cutting the grass with the lawn mower. It seems, you know, we have a very small lawn, but it's pretty easy to whiz around there with that. And, you know, it gets a nice even cut. Looks good. Whereas all these other, you know, traditional dieting approaches are kind of like using the scissors. They're really hard work. You're cutting your lawn with the scissors, you're down on your knees, sweating, you know, you're missing bits. You're constantly having to go back and redo them. It's loads and loads of work and the end result's worse.

So it's like a lose lose. And again, it's just, it takes a bit of coming to terms with it. Those things that may be not so helpful now. And we do help people like if they really want to do them, because as you said, like community is really important and being part of something is really important. We help people find a balance with it, but it's usually a lot less of those things, gym classes or running or whatever it is. And then three or four strength training sessions a week, and that's all that's needed. And then on top of that, the only other thing we look at is steps. So just getting enough daily activity. Cause a lot of people we work with are.

Pretty sedentary. Again, they're doing really well in their job, but that generally means you're at your desk more. You're in Zoom meetings all day or team meetings all day. In between that, you've got to answer all your email inbox, which is constantly filling up and you're kind of stuck and tied to the desk. So we keep an eye on that and we try and come up with creative ways of keeping that step count high.

Sally (32:31.624)
Wow, love that. That's such brilliant tips. So good and I think really manageable as well for people to do and not scary. You know, this idea of, in fact, funny enough, I've just had to give up running. I did couch to 5k. I was really, really proud of myself because I'm not a runner. I feel very much like a lump when I'm running. And but the old joints. Yeah, I mean, the right knee, the right hip, the lower back.

really just couldn't handle it as much as my cardio is, you know, I'm flying, I'm there, I can absolutely do it cardio wise, but my joints just cannot withstand that, the concrete pounding and no matter what shoes I wear, how I run, whether I run with a invisible thread pulling me up or pulling me back or whatever, you know, it's just, the results are still the same.

Rob Birkhead (33:04.238)
Mm.

Rob Birkhead (33:23.758)
Yeah.

Sally (33:24.776)
But I do love strength training and I do go to the gym twice a week. I have a trainer and we do, she's a strong man athlete. Yeah. So she's really into the lifting and, and I started seeing her twice a week now. And I, to be honest with you, I don't really look at my body. I don't weigh myself. I try to sort of, I don't know whether it's avoidance or whatever, but I just don't, don't, don't do that. And she said to me, I have to say, she said, your body has really changed. And I said to her, I know.

Rob Birkhead (33:30.862)
Nice.

Sally (33:54.568)
I see it and I feel it myself. I think it's because, and nothing's changed. I mean, I'd even stopped the fasting. So I'd gone back to eating three meals a day, probably why, and stopped the running. But I'm seeing her now twice a week and my body's like, you know, got that V coming in. I've lost the fat around the middle. My back is really strong. I don't know my own strength now. It's really funny because I'm shutting cupboard doors and they're slamming.

Rob Birkhead (34:06.062)
Hmm.

Rob Birkhead (34:13.39)
Yeah, yeah.

Rob Birkhead (34:23.502)
breaking them all.

Sally (34:24.168)
Yeah, it's so weird, but it's just so interesting. And as you're talking, I'm thinking, you know what, I might go up to three times a week with her or just find that other little sneaky session for myself. And like you say, it doesn't even have to be a full hour. It could be like a half an hour session at home or something. So,

Rob Birkhead (34:42.894)
It's quality, not quantity with strength training. So that's, that's why I lent Ken. You could do six body pump classes a week and get, well, actually a lot worse results because of the high stress, but in terms of the muscle, you're going to build three good half an hour sessions are going to be way better. So yeah, you're doing, you're doing exactly the right thing with that. And you know, you, you've just said your body shape changes completely. And I think so many people have assessed the scale and we do usually get pretty good weight loss results as well with people, but we often have to kind of have the discussion of.

Sally (34:57.192)
Yeah.

Rob Birkhead (35:10.67)
Yeah, you've done crash diets in the past and you've maybe lost eight pounds in four weeks and now you've only lost six, but you've probably built three pounds of muscle rapidly at the start. Cause you've done, you know, you've lost muscle from the age of 30, you're 50 now. And we're now building that back and they go, yeah, well, I do feel different. You know, my trousers are hanging off me and all of this stuff. And it's a different focus. I think it's really empowering. I don't know if you find this is really empowering as well. Just being strong and lifting heavy things. You know, our clients love it.

Sally (35:39.112)
I can't get enough, honestly, the power that I feel, the rush that I feel afterwards. So my PB at the moment is 60 kilos, a deadlift, 60 kilos. And I say to my trainer, don't tell me what you're putting on. Like, I don't want to know because I think that gets in the way. Yeah, I just want to, yeah. And I, you know, if I'm doing...

Rob Birkhead (35:48.27)
Nice. Yeah.

Rob Birkhead (35:55.566)
I really can do, yeah.

Sally (36:01.448)
If I'm holding a plank or if I've got reps to do, I'll say, don't tell me, just tell me when it's 10 and I'm done. Cause I really go into a zone. Like I go into hypnosis when I'm pushing weights or lifting, which really helps. But the feeling that I get afterwards, like no amount of chocolate could give me that. It's such a wonderful sense.

Rob Birkhead (36:22.446)
I think it's so good for self -esteem. Like I almost had no, no, you can't measure self -esteem, but when I got into strength training, it was because I was, I had very low self -esteem. I was very like a little weedy boy, going into university and very low confidence. And it was the first thing that ever gave me confidence to be like, I can do stuff. You know, I can achieve stuff. I can change myself. I don't know if you've found that as well, but the confidence that comes from it translate, you know, it goes into everything. That's why we started the business. Cause I then had the confidence to do something and get out.

Sally (36:44.616)
Yeah.

Rob Birkhead (36:52.014)
comfort zone and do other things.

Sally (36:53.256)
Yeah. Yeah, really. Like I've always said that if you've been disempowered, you've got to find your power and strength training is about using the power elements of the body. You know, those, those, I don't know what they are. They fast twitch muscle fibers or the, the muscle fibers of the body that give you power, you know, you've got to, and it's life force. I've just been listening to a podcast about life force and the vital force. And when we don't have energy, it's because we, our vital force is low.

Rob Birkhead (37:10.318)
Yeah, yeah.

Sally (37:23.304)
So weight lifting actually increases our vital force and enables us to gain energy. And then we can use that energy in our work, in our social life, just to, again, you know, enjoy life and bring life back into ourselves. So I do think that, yeah, it's, it's a wonderful thing, strength training at Menopause. And if there's been, if there's been one thing that's been consistent through this podcast, it's the fact that I've always done strength training.

It's always, and I will never give it up, you know, unless I lose the ability to move.

Rob Birkhead (37:58.19)
And that's how it's got to be, which is, sorry, Tinder. That's like, I think it's something that takes, like you obviously dove headfirst into this, which is awesome. But some people I think have to come to terms with that, which we do help them. And they tend to enjoy our sessions anyway that we do. But I always try and tell people the truth and not like, you know, this is going to be 12 weeks and then you get to stop. Like if you want to be strong as a 60 year old and as a 70 year old and as an 80 year old, who doesn't fall over and break bones and have issues and can play with the family.

Like you've got a strength. Yeah. I still plan to be strength training then and lifting heavy. I think that's the other thing. Like I was speaking to my parents recently. I just got a new deadlift PB as well. And I, I was showing them the video of it and they were going, that looks too heavy. You know, you're okay. And I'm fine. but they go, I said, you need to lift heavy too. Cause they're getting my dad's 71 and they're getting weaker and I can see it. I can, they're able to do a lot less.

And they were quite fit and healthy. And my dad was going, yeah, well I deadlift, I use a two kilo dumbbell. And I'm like, that's going to do nothing, unfortunately. That movement, maybe for another movement, but most people think what heavy is is so light. And obviously you can build up to it, but my mom, my mom then said, no, I use one kilo. And I'm thinking, again, like I'm trying to educate them, but you can't force anyone to do anything. And they're of this mindset, you know, that that's heavy.

Sally (39:05.384)
Yeah.

Sally (39:18.216)
Yeah.

Rob Birkhead (39:18.318)
And actually you want to be lifting much heavier and you, most people are really surprised by what they can lift. So our clients come to us and they might only use the four kilo kettlebell, the smallest one for everything at the beginning. And then within four weeks they're using 12. And then at the end of 12 weeks, I'm up using 16 or 20 and they couldn't believe it. Like they've never lifted anything like that before. And that's, as you said, it's so empowering and exciting. You could tell I get excited by this and. Yeah, there's not, it's great to start like measuring it, isn't it? And getting those PBs that you know what your PB is now and.

Sally (39:28.264)
Yeah.

Sally (39:36.776)
Yeah.

Rob Birkhead (39:47.086)
Something to be proud of that's not a number on the scale. It's a number, but it's a number that isn't about body image and all this other stuff, which is so complex and can really get everyone down. And it's much more enjoyable, I think, to focus on that. And then the other results happen kind of almost by accident.

Sally (39:57.416)
Yeah.

Sally (40:03.912)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I really agree. So how do people work with you then? So is it an app? Is it Zoom? How does it work?

Rob Birkhead (40:13.966)
Yeah, we get this question a lot as well. So they work one to one with a coach. It's, it's, we call it private coaching for a reason. So there's, there's two different parts to it. So there's the coaching part, which is basically guiding anyone who works with us through the programs. The program is designed specifically for women going through perimenopause or menopause or postmenopause. It's the approach is the same from perimenopause onwards that works best.

So we have exercise, nutrition, and mindset things that we're teaching every single week. Now we drip feed this really small change at every week. and then the coach guides them through the coach will have an onboarding call with every single client who signs up. So we get to know each other better because you're going to be working together for at least 12 weeks, but most of our clients stay with us for one to two years. So 12 to 24 months, they'll talk through their goals with the coach as well. we actually have a consultation call before they joined as well. We do, we do go through the goals as well, but when once they've joined.

So they'll go through the goals with the coach and then they'll come up with a plan, which, which involves part of the program anyway. but they'll tweak the program to suit them. So if people have got injuries like, Lou, one of our clients who lost seven and a half stone. So one of our biggest weight loss, I know it's not just about weight loss, but success stories. She went from a size 22 to a size eight to 10. She had had a whole step on it, like step on her and crush her foot and break a load of bones. And we had to adapt loads of stuff, but she could still do it because we go through this process of adapting everything. So.

Yeah, they have the call with the coach and then every week they have a check -in with their coach to help keep them accountable and the coach will stay in touch throughout the week. And then they work through three workouts a week. So it's simple from home. Usually some people go to the gym and then different nutrition things over the weeks, which will start to, you know, there's a lot to learn. So that's why it's at least 12 weeks. And in the first 12 weeks, we cover all the fundamentals of exercise and nutrition. So by the end of that, most people will know more than any personal trainer.

pretty much out there about menopause nutrition and exercise. And then the second 12 weeks is all about mindset. So this is how to keep going no matter what, even if life gets in the way, you know, you know, you work on this area, like that's such an important thing. We do entire 12 weeks on that. And then the third and fourth one about how basically how to maintain it and avoid that kind of post -diet rebound that a lot of people have. And we don't see it as a diet, but how to make sure this becomes like a lifetime transformation.

Sally (42:34.088)
Yeah.

Rob Birkhead (42:34.222)
Does that answer the question? I know there's probably a lot more questions about how it works, but basically they work one -to -one with the coach. They can contact them any time and they guide them through the program, which is initially 12 weeks, but a lot of people do longer.

Sally (42:46.696)
Yeah, yeah that does make sense. And is it done via Zoom? Do you just have an app or is it WhatsApp support, email support? Mm -hmm.

Rob Birkhead (42:51.662)
Hmm.

Yes. We have a web app, so it acts just like an app. you can put it onto your phone home screen. You log in, you find everything in there. So you find your workouts for the week. You could check in with your coach and contact your coach in there as well. and then the coach will either have a phone call or an email or WhatsApp conversation every week with them. but all the workouts, I call them virtual personal training sessions. So they're mostly with me. All the early ones are with me. Some of the later ones with our team are really good as well. And,

You just hit play because our clients are so busy. They don't want to like read a list of exercises, figure out what the exercise is. Have to remember how long the rest is and all the rest of it. So they just hit play. Everything is full length video workouts where I do it with you. So you just need your three kettlebells from home. You press play. We send the resistance band and a welcome pack to everyone. And then they just follow it. And there's 30 minute and 45 minute version of everything. So they can just go, okay, I've got half an hour in between meetings. Hit play, follow it.

yeah, we try and make it really simple. That's the thing, the engineering in, in, in me, we've distilled everything down to be really, really simple. the bare minimum needed to get the best results rather than like, I don't know how you find it. A lot of times I like here nutrition is, or like I was on a, a webinar with a nutritionist talking about this, food intolerance test that I've been testing recently. And I was having to look up words and I was like, I don't even know what that one is. Like I have pretty experienced in this industry and it's like, it's.

It's stuff that most people don't need to know. So we just try and say that this is what you need to know. This is what you need to do. This is the bare minimum to get the best results. Then if you want to know more, you can ask your coach or we will, you know, we do coaching calls every Tuesday as well. So me and Ben educate the whole community, help them with getting through whatever's going on. So like at the moment it's summer, holidays, barbecue season, Christmas. It's how to get through Christmas without gaining weight, which pretty much all our clients do and still enjoy it. Obviously not miss out on everything.

Sally (44:50.248)
Yeah.

Rob Birkhead (44:51.822)
so yeah, there's a whole different host of things we do, as part of that experience. But the main thing is they have that one -to -one experience with the coach, which I think is so important rather than, you know, just an app with, which is, they can't go to for help. Cause as you know, life is not straightforward. different problems come up, you know, you can, you can beat yourself up if you've had a week, which you feel like a bad week and, and that can really stop people. So that's why we have so much support and accountability there.

Sally (45:07.496)
Yeah.

Sally (45:15.496)
Yeah.

Sally (45:20.136)
It really sounds good. And I think accountability is so important. And we have this innate human thing where we don't want to let anybody down. We don't want to let someone down. And if we work, yeah, we don't let other people down. That's right. So if we're working with someone, we know that someone's really invested in us. They've got our back. They're going to be showing up on, on the next call. We will subconsciously, you know, be, be making sure that we do the thing that we need to do, like do the homework basically. So that.

Rob Birkhead (45:30.446)
other people right.

Sally (45:50.632)
We get a little point, we get a little brownie point. We make that other person proud of us. You know, I love it when I can say to my trainer, I've done this in between our session. I've been to yoga, I've done my steps, or I did a little run or something. And I like the fact that she'll be proud of me. That motivates me to do that, that little bit of accountability. So I think, you know, the app combined with the one -to -ones that you do and the coaching calls that you do sounds really good. I think you've probably hit the nail on the head.

people because women love community as well you know.

Rob Birkhead (46:23.854)
Yes, we have community groups as well. So we have WhatsApp and Facebook community groups that are really active. So yeah, they often all answer each other's questions now, which is amazing. Like we've got so many comments you've done so well and they're still in the program. So new people come in all the time and are saying, look, I'm feeling nervous. You know, is this going to work? I've been week one. Like this is quite, so we do the harder stuff at the beginning to get, you know, to get some good quick wins. and they go, you know, this bit seems a bit tricky and people kind of know, you know, it will get better or they might have a headache from cutting something out.

They're just so supportive of each other. So yes, that community aspect, as you said, is so important that we're really proud of that community we've got now. And as I said, we've got so many clients who've come to retreats and events and like know everything we teach inside out. So they're kind of educating the new people when in between them, when they're speaking to their coach. So I think, yeah, some people love the community. Some people they say, no, I'm not really into that. They watch the community, but don't contribute. But then they speak to their coach. So we try and make it so that this, it kind of works for everyone.

And again, yeah, we've done this for 10 years, so I suppose hopefully we would figure it out by now.

Sally (47:29.544)
Yeah, it sounds like you really have distilled it down to the nuts and bolts of the essence of what is actually working. And I love that. I think you mentioned it before, but just getting to the essence of what works and then building on what works and not overcomplicating it, just making it really simple and those workable aspects. And I also love that you put the harder stuff at the start because when people join something like Trinity, there will be so much more motivated to...

to do the harder stuff at the start. And then if they know it's gonna get easier and they can do the harder stuff at the start, it's like, my God, this is a no brainer. I'm in it, I'm doing it. Yeah.

Rob Birkhead (48:08.622)
Yeah, exactly. That's the reason, you know, it needs to happen then anyway, like there's a lot of not particularly exciting things that, you know, get people's gut into a good place, which that means their cravings are in a good place and everything. But we do it in a simple way. And as you said, they're really motivated when they join so we can do that then, and then they don't need to do it later.

Sally (48:26.024)
Yeah.

And do they have to buy their own weights? Like if they want to start lifting 10 kilos, 20 kilos, I guess they do, don't they?

Rob Birkhead (48:36.046)
Yeah. So we do send a welcome pack with, we have a cookbook, we have a journal, we have a resistance band, but we don't send the kettlebells. We found that's a difficult thing to facilitate. We have considered getting ones with Trinity branding on. I don't know how anyone, this is like a really strange side note, but anyone can sell weights profitably because the shipping costs are crazy to send like a 20 kilo weight. That's such a heavy parcel. And so they usually buy their own weights, but we, again, we kind of point them to the best value stuff. So.

Sally (48:59.72)
I know.

Rob Birkhead (49:05.582)
And we, we, it's like everything we do. I'm always laughing at myself. It's sad, it's sad, but we try and think of the simplest, smallest amount of equipment they need to get the best results. So three kettlebells is all they need to get started. A four, eight and a 12 is what we usually recommend. Some people just get the four and an eight and then they can get them later. Decathlon has really great kettlebells. Argos sometimes has them.

I would avoid, if anyone's listening to this and thinking of getting these, avoid the plastic ones because they're massive and bulky and all our clients who get them end up buying the metal ones later. But the decathlons have like a nice rubber base. So if you have a nice wooden floor, it doesn't damage the floor. I have the whole set. And then over time people do tend to add to them. And then they usually get really excited. They're like, you know, I've asked my husband for Christmas for a 20 kilo kettlebell and the postman is going, I've got this package for your husband. And they go, no, no, give it to me. And the postman is like, struggle to get it to the door. And then they just take it out easily out their hand.

They always love that because so many people still have these preconceptions that like weights are for men and cardio is for women or whatever it is.

Sally (50:08.04)
Yeah, yeah, makes sense. Okay. Final question then, what are some of the common rhetorics that you see around menopause and weight gain and why are they not always helpful?

Rob Birkhead (50:21.806)
yeah, there's some great ones. I'm sure you know some as well that I won't think of. The classic is just, it all goes to pot around metaphors. Like we hear that a lot, like, or some version of that, you know, which is just, it seems really demotivating to me because we just don't see that as the case. I think the thing that people don't realize is you have to do things differently. And it does get harder in some ways. I'm not saying that again, I haven't gone through metaphors. I can't say, but I've worked with thousands of people who have and...

Sally (50:28.584)
Yeah.

Rob Birkhead (50:49.454)
spoken to so many, obviously some things get harder and some people have really tough menopause. About 25 % have significant symptoms, which definitely are hard to get through. About 50 % from the research have moderate symptoms, but they're manageable. And then 25 % are lucky and don't have many at all. But I think the rhetoric shouldn't help any of those people because people then just give it and they go, well, I just have the chocolate in the evening. Cause what's the point? This is just me. This is now part of getting older and

We've worked with so many people now who've disproven that. Like at the beginning, with most of the things I'm talking about passionately today, like at the beginning, I would, I would be like, yeah, he's, he's weight training really the best. And then the more and more and more we research it and we actually had Cardo in the program at one point and got worse results. And the more I believe these things are actually the case and the more and more people we've helped and seen, okay, no, everyone we speak to at week four. So I have a phone call, me or Ben with everyone at four weeks in as well to see how they're getting on, make sure they're getting everything they need from us.

Everyone has seen results in some way. A lot of people have lost weight, but they're all feeling better. And most of it's just because of like the quality of the nutrition and diet at the moment is the food out there is really, really poor. And the type of exercise people are doing is wrong or they're not doing any at all. And if we can change that, you can turn it around. So I think that's the biggest one. It's just, it all goes to pot or it's all part of the aging process. What's the point? I don't know if there's any other big ones that you can think of that I'm sure there are. That's the main one that comes to mind for me.

Sally (52:10.792)
Yeah.

Sally (52:16.072)
Yeah, you do. I mean, you do. You see this kind of this style of narrative a lot. And it's really disempowering. But I get it. I get where it comes from. I understand that perhaps it's come from down the family line or it's, it can be what connects people actually in friendship groups, this idea that it's shit, but at least we're in it together. And then you might get one person out of that.

friendship group that goes, you know what, I think it doesn't have to be shit. And they'll go off and they'll find something that helps. Like they'll join Trinity and they'll find something that helps with it. And they become quite outcast. I mean, they'll, from that particular friendship group anyway, but they'll find other people who also have this more empowering attitude. It definitely is about, it's anything negative, any challenges that we have in our lives are absolutely.

an opportunity to shift something, to change something. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't see it like that because they're gaining from the resistance from not changing. But also they just don't see it. Like they've got their blinkers on there. They're not looking for the information. They're resigned to it. They just keep going back to their doctors and the doctor doesn't have any answers. And in a way they think that the doctor should have the answers, but we know in this world that we're in, because we're sort of on the other side of it, that a lot of doctors don't.

have the answer or if they do, they're sort of suggesting to someone, yeah, you probably need to get more sleep. Yeah, you probably need to like move more, but then they don't have enough time really to educate the patient into how that can happen for themselves. So we do really have to advocate for ourselves. We have to use the little energy that we do have.

to really advocate for ourselves and to research and to find out what we can do to support ourselves. But it is hard. But I do think that's what makes someone strong. I do believe that the reward is coming through the struggle in a way. It might sound really bleak and negative, but having a bit of struggle is, it can be what makes us and what makes us,

Sally (54:37.0)
What happened to that vital force within us, actually?

Rob Birkhead (54:41.166)
And I think that's key, isn't it? To build self -esteem and self -worth, which can often plummet again around menopause. Like I mentioned earlier, we pretty much lost the whole business. We had to let the entire team go five or six years ago. And at the time it was awful. I didn't get paid for nine months. My whole relationship then I broke down, like everything went wrong. Basically. it's obviously not menopause. It's quite a different scenario, but it was a really tough time. But I look back on that really fondly because I also made.

Sally (55:06.728)
Yeah.

Rob Birkhead (55:10.094)
who I am today. I learned so many business skills through that that I will never make those mistakes again and we have a rock solid business now. And I have so much more self -belief in myself because I got through that and was still okay despite all of those awful things that happened. And I think, you mentioned it earlier, I think a lot of the time we spend, a lot of the time trying to avoid pain in life and discomfort, like you said, whether that's hunger, whether that's a hard workout, it's pushing ourselves.

It's such a cliche, but it does everything you want is on the other side of that pain to a degree. Obviously, as I said, we try and minimize it. So it's also fun and enjoyable, but there has to be some degree of hardship or pain. And I will say to members like you choose your pain or choose the hard, the heart, you can either have the hardship of feeling dreadful, having no energy, you know, having the. The wine and the chocolate on the sofa in the evening and then waking up feeling awful and continuing to gain weight, or you can choose the hard thing of getting up and doing.

Sally (55:47.208)
Yeah.

Rob Birkhead (56:07.31)
a workout and then maybe say no to the croissant in the morning or the muffin and having a slightly better breakfast. And that will make you feel great in the long run. The other one might make you feel good occasionally, temporarily in the short run. And you just choose. There's no easy path in life is there? Like at whatever stage, whether it's menopause, whether it's running a business, whether it's career, whether it's having a family is all, whatever path you choose is hard for whatever reason, right?

Sally (56:33.192)
Yes, yeah, either way you pay. You know, you got, you pay if you stagnate or you pay if you go to the gym and you pay with the pain, because it is painful lifting weights, like let's not beat around the bush, it bloody hurts. But the reward of that, you know, there's always a payoff. That's what I meant to say. Yeah, the payoff of having the wine and chocolate on the sofa is that yucky feeling in the morning or having the payoff of lifting weights or, you know.

Rob Birkhead (56:36.814)
Hmm.

Rob Birkhead (56:45.87)
Yep.

Sally (57:02.664)
being on this particular journey, this lifestyle, there's a positive payoff, there's a negative payoff and there's a positive payoff, that's what I'm trying to say. And it's just asking yourself which payoff would I prefer. And that's always got me through tricky times. If I find myself like regressing back into eating crap on the sofa in the evening, I will always tap back into that question and actually link the feeling of...

wanting with progress, the feeling of wanting. So just being with the feeling of wanting the wine and the chocolate, but not having it as empowerment, as like, you know, power that I'm tapping into for myself. But I guess I'm going to talk all about that on your podcast, aren't I?

Rob Birkhead (57:51.022)
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to having you on and seeing, you know, your wisdom on this is really exciting because like, there's always lots more to learn in terms of the mindset side of things. And it's, it's the biggest thing that there really is. I think the exercise and nutrition, once you know what to do is fairly straightforward. And then we spend most of that year or two working with clients, working on the mindset stuff, you know, the, like you said, the, you know, straight, what to do after a stressful day at work and thinking they're a failure because they had a holiday and they...

didn't follow what they thought they were going to follow or had a bit more wine than they planned. That's life, isn't it? And it's about how you tackle it. So yeah, really looking forward to that conversation.

Sally (58:21.832)
Yeah, that's life. Yeah, absolutely.

Rob, thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom with us. It's definitely motivated me. I hope that the listeners, people listening, are feeling motivated by you and your partner, Ben, and the work that you're doing with Trinity is absolutely amazing. And I urge everyone listening to this to go and check out your website, your social media, you're on Instagram. Where else are you on social media? Where do you hang out?

Rob Birkhead (58:58.414)
everything really. Instagram, Facebook, Trinity transformation or Trinity transformations with an S annoyingly on Instagram. Someone took, someone took the one without the S and won't let us have it. tick, tick tock as well. if you like, you know, that's quite an up and coming thing, but we've, we've got a big following on tick tock. but the website's probably the best place to go either there, or if you go onto the social media ones, the link in the bio bit, you can get a lot of free resources through that. So you can get.

Sally (59:00.1)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.

Sally (59:09.128)
Aww.

Rob Birkhead (59:25.934)
Free Menopause Weight Loss Secrets Guide, which will tell you like what we talked about today in more detail. You can get my book, it's up there if you're on the video. You can get a copy of that and that has a load of free workouts and things you can get through that, free nutrition calculator as well. So yeah, there's loads of free resources to help you regardless of your situation on all of those, what should I say, platforms. Let's see if that works.

Sally (59:47.912)
forms. Thank you so much Rob, you've been a delight, I've really enjoyed it, thank you.

Rob Birkhead (59:55.278)
Thanks.

Sally (59:56.872)
Cool, all right. Let me see.